What does elenaiba say...

[Zedi]

I kinda agree with MadMax, especially with the german engineering ... <3 Audi & VW :P
But.. given the cards on the table, what u gonna do? Play forever that ancient SH3, or save SH5? Not to menion that SH5 is more likely the last in the series. At least I (and many more) will never buy another one with Ubi logo on. So this german technology and way of plan/do things speech is nice, but will not help any1 in anyway.

[AOTD_MadMax]

Originally Posted by Magnum

I kinda agree with MadMax, especially with the german engineering ... <3 Audi & VW :P
But.. given the cards on the table, what u gonna do? Play forever that ancient SH3, or save SH5? Not to menion that SH5 is more likely the last in the series. At least I (and many more) will never buy another one with Ubi logo on. So this german technology and way of plan/do things speech is nice, but will not help any1 in anyway.

Hi Magnum,

i will tell you what i will do !

Now we got summer here in Germany and the weather is fine.
As an biker ( BMW K100RS 16V btw. the best engineered bike ever ) i will spend my time by driving my bike in my free time.
I must be an complete idiot using this time by fixing any Bugs of any game ever.
Ok, i like subsims and i like to play them but life is to short to spend all he time with modding and in case of SH5 by fixing stupid bugs.

I wait for another Patch and i wait for an tool where you can edit the stupid GR2-Files for bringing more units to SH5.
If this patch wont come and if those needed tool wont come i will do nothing on SH5.
Its not my job to create this tool and really, iam not in a condition to create this tool cause iam not an programmer like some other modders here.
Maybe Privateer will judge my skill now but who cares ???
And first i have to Upgrade my "Fall of the rising sun" for SH4.
There is an big "to do list" i have to work on.

For me SH4 is not dead, just like SH3.
My next plan is an Destroyer-Campain for SH4 with multiple playable destroyerunits beginning with old Clemson class over Gleaves, Somers, Benson to Fletcher, Sumner and Gearing class on US-side.
This could be interesting.

Regards

Maddy

[Reece]

Originally Posted by AOTD_MadMax

Hi Magnum,

i will tell you what i will do !

Now we got summer here in Germany and the weather is fine.
As an biker ( BMW K100RS 16V btw. the best engineered bike ever ) i will spend my time by driving my bike in my free time.
I must be an complete idiot using this time by fixing any Bugs of any game ever.
Ok, i like subsims and i like to play them but life is to short to spend all he time with modding and in case of SH5 by fixing stupid bugs.

I wait for another Patch and i wait for an tool where you can edit the stupid GR2-Files for bringing more units to SH5.
If this patch wont come and if those needed tool wont come i will do nothing on SH5.
Its not my job to create this tool and really, iam not in a condition to create this tool cause iam not an programmer like some other modders here.
Maybe Privateer will judge my skill now but who cares ???
And first i have to Upgrade my "Fall of the rising sun" for SH4.
There is an big "to do list" i have to work on.

For me SH4 is not dead, just like SH3.
My next plan is an Destroyer-Campain for SH4 with multiple playable destroyerunits beginning with old Clemson class over Gleaves, Somers, Benson to Fletcher, Sumner and Gearing class on US-side.
This could be interesting.

Regards

Maddy

Thing is if Ubi drops SH5 servers then the game is useless, unless they release a patch, and I wouldn't bet on them doing that, so all the work would be for nothing. Also I don't have a good enough internet connection to stay online so the game is out of reach for me anyway, there are probably a lot of modders that don't have SH5 because of this.
I love your bike mate, would love to upgrade if I could afford it, I have an old 87 K100RT, still goes well though, the wife and I go on short holidays when the weather is nice!!
Cheers.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Reece

Thing is if Ubi drops SH5 servers then the game is useless, unless they release a patch, and I wouldn't bet on them doing that, so all the work would be for nothing. Also I don't have a good enough internet connection to stay online so the game is out of reach for me anyway, there are probably a lot of modders that don't have SH5 because of this.
I love your bike mate, would love to upgrade if I could afford it, I have an old 87 K100RT, still goes well though, the wife and I go on short holidays when the weather is nice!!
Cheers.

If they drop the servers they will release the patch.
In these cases, the publisher will have already have made the patch at the time of development/release, all they would have to do is release it.

Yes they could just kill the servers without patching, but then they would no longer beable to sell the game with out breaking the law. That is somthing even Ubi would not dare, plus there is no incentive for them to do it anyway.
Everything they do is in the name of $$$.

[PL_Andrev]

Are you disappointed with the poor quality SH5 which you bought? Why?

Who told you to buy SH5? Who told you to buy an unknown product? Ads (trailers, in-game footages) lie, they just want your money.
If something is too expensive or you are uncertain that something has proper quality for you... are you buying this product?
Wait for opinions, for feedback (f.e. on subsim review). No? You bought this game at release date?
So, who is guilty? Developers? Not - it is you, why did you buy an unknown product?

I know people who not bought SH5 because it has DRM. I know people who not bought SH5 because this game is weak arcade or RPG game.
And I did not buy this game - yet. SH5 is really weak, has bad instruction, tragic tutorial, missing a lot of good ideas from SH3 or SH4 (for example: 1939-45 campaign, extensive ADV mode, mission generator). The game is infinite, incomplete, has serious bugs, and the AI is in the early years of very stupid - but this game has something that we missed in previous sections (reaction to enemy activity Uboat, full 3D interior, special orders for crews)... is it really weak? Work done by modders encourages me to buy SH5 - what I see is I'm impressed very nice.

I really regret that UbiSoft has not decided to allocate a one part-time person to work with modders and to review and clean SH5 bugs, but such is the law of the market. Transfer of part of work for modders ("they will fix it") is not a serious treatment of buyers - it weakens the brand team, destroy the publisher opinion.
But the developers work allow create unexpected add-ons to SH4 like "uboat on Atlantic" (OM mod) or "Japanese submarine at WWII" (JyunsenB mod).

I plan to buy this game after the holiday, and convinced me to purchase the wonderful work of modders gathered around SUBSIM community. Their work, however, would not be possible without Dan and his team. At the first time in the submarine simulations games history I could play the Japanese submarine campaign at the Pacific and sink evil Americans, British or Australians, and I firmly believe that for some time I will play type XXI at 1945 in SH5 or play Bismarck, fleeing Allied submarines and their torpedoes.

I want to tell "thank you" to developers for their work - by their work the first mod was already published two days after the SH5 release date.

[AOTD_MadMax]

@ Antar

i buyed SH5 one Day after release.
That is my art of saying "thanks" to the devs.
I dont have to write "thanks" for your work in any forum cause i did it by buying the game to the release-price.

Iam not guilty for doing that.
I beleaved the things the marketing-department offers us with videos and so on and i beleaved the words spoken out from the devs that SH5 will be the best SH ever.

Now the truth comes through and the truth is that they have cheated us with non functial contents and other boring things.
Thats the fact.

Regards

Maddy

[Zedi]

Originally Posted by Antar

...
So, who is guilty? Developers? Not - it is you, why did you buy an unknown product?
...

I bought is because they don't have a fraking demo as any game or product in the world has, so no way to test it before buy it.
I bought it because I like the SH series, but I cant play an ancient and ugly game as SH3, with huge dials &crap all over my screen. Even if is functioning good now.. after almost 10 years after release.
I bought it because I saw previews on YT and I liked very much what I saw, was hoping that this time we finally will get a finished SH.

Guilty? Ubi!! I don't know where the hell Ubi has the HQ, but in my part of the world there is a say.. the customer is always right. I'm a customer and they suck.

[HarlockGN]

Since someone used some necromancy on this thread, I'll say what I think.

While very honest, the dev response I read left me debaffled for a single reason, and that's how much a professional developer relies on modders for his game to reach a decent finished state.

This is the complete opposite of professionalism for a game developer.

Don't get me wrong: I love the modding communities of basically every game that allows mods, I've been part of quite a few (Oblivion for instance, with some very popular mods, but not only). But a developer that releases an unfinished products counting on the customers (that paid for such product) to make up for the work that he didn't do is absolutely comtemptible.

A developer's duty is to get a product out in a decently finished state, THEN if the modders build great things on top of it, awesome, but the developer needs to make sure the base is solid.

I'm starting to think that the very reason (or at least one of the reasons) for which this game was released in such a shameful state is that the developers saw what the community did with SH3 and felt overly safe that the modders would have "saved" the game whatever state it was in.
This behavioir flies in the face of the very idea of professionalism, and I think they should really feel ashamed about nurturing such thoughts.

We paid for this game. We shouldn't be SUPPOSED to fix it. If we do, it's for our enjoyment only, but we don't have any obligation to "help" a developer that obviously didn't do his job decently. If we do it, it's for the sake of our enjoyment, but it should be completely disjoined from the developer's will, work or expectations.

That's why, while I appreciate the sincerity, I cannot appreciate this kind of amateurish approach to development, and if I had any respect for Ubi Romania (or Ubisoft in general) now it's gone.

[jas39]

well said.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by HarlockGN

Since someone used some necromancy on this thread, I'll say what I think.

While very honest, the dev response I read left me debaffled for a single reason, and that's how much a professional developer relies on modders for his game to reach a decent finished state.

This is the complete opposite of professionalism for a game developer.

Don't get me wrong: I love the modding communities of basically every game that allows mods, I've been part of quite a few (Oblivion for instance, with some very popular mods, but not only). But a developer that releases an unfinished products counting on the customers (that paid for such product) to make up for the work that he didn't do is absolutely comtemptible.

A developer's duty is to get a product out in a decently finished state, THEN if the modders build great things on top of it, awesome, but the developer needs to make sure the base is solid.

I'm starting to think that the very reason (or at least one of the reasons) for which this game was released in such a shameful state is that the developers saw what the community did with SH3 and felt overly safe that the modders would have "saved" the game whatever state it was in.
This behavioir flies in the face of the very idea of professionalism, and I think they should really feel ashamed about nurturing such thoughts.

We paid for this game. We shouldn't be SUPPOSED to fix it. If we do, it's for our enjoyment only, but we don't have any obligation to "help" a developer that obviously didn't do his job decently. If we do it, it's for the sake of our enjoyment, but it should be completely disjoined from the developer's will, work or expectations.

That's why, while I appreciate the sincerity, I cannot appreciate this kind of amateurish approach to development, and if I had any respect for Ubi Romania (or Ubisoft in general) now it's gone.

Moot point now, as Ubi has effectively killed the franchise by twice in a row not devoting the time and money needed in order to allow development of a title worthy of the Silent Hunter name at release.

The brand is irreparably tainted. Even if by some stroke of fancy, Ubi released a top notch quality Silent Hunter 6, it would still sell below potential as the albatross of SH4 and SH5's initial release state would hang around its neck.

One can only wonder what Dan and company could have done, if they had been given the resources to accomplish what I believe they wanted for the game.

[THE_MASK]

"First they will love us, then they will hate us (with reason) then after patches & mods it will be the only sub sim worth playing.'' After hearing what TheDarkWraith has to say about the AI i believe it .

[tonschk]

Originally Posted by Magnum

.... but I cant play an ancient and ugly game as SH3, with huge silly dials &crap all over my screen.....

.

I Agree , I LOVE Silent Hunter 5

.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

One can only wonder what Dan and company could have done, if they had been given the resources to accomplish what I believe they wanted for the game.

How many more resources do you want? There's over 80 names on the credits. Even taking out the Ubisoft France component there's still a fair number of people that worked on SH5 (contrary to popular belief it wasn't just a one-man team). How much time, effort and money do you spend before you realise your investment is greater than your return?

I know this will upset many Danbois, but I think we have the best the devs could come up with. I mean, if the dev team was that concerned about risk to reputation, they would have found a way to delay its release. It wouldn't be the first time that Ubisoft has delayed release of a game. And SH5 was hardly the most awaited blockbuster game of the year.

You are reaping dev team design decisions, and all related inherent flaws, including an obvious decision to ignore fundamental bugs carried through from SH3 and SH4 coding. Remember, design is undertaken early in the SDLC...if your design is flawed or illogical, your product will be flawed...

...much easier just to cut your losses when you've realised you've bitten off more than you can chew...

[aergistal]

Originally Posted by Magnum

I bought it because I like the SH series, but I cant play an ancient and ugly game as SH3, with huge dials &crap all over my screen. Even if is functioning good now.. after almost 10 years after release.

You must be the perfect client Ubisoft aimed for , putting huge emphasis on eye-candy above anything else, easily influenced into hastly buying it despite the negative reviews.

I'm actually considering buying SH3 instead of 5, only to be able to use the GWX mod at least.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Magnum

but I cant play an ancient and ugly game as SH3, with huge dials &crap all over my screen. Even if is functioning good now.. after almost 10 years after release.

Spoken like a true SubSim veteran....but sadly, not backed up by legions of supporters or the thousands of SH3 game players