[REL] Trigger Maru Overhauled - Page 165

JoeCorrado · 06-25-10, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

somebody ought to make a mod to prevent detection by dds at too great a depth. Frankly, it is makes the game too hard, especially in the early war. A good mod might fix it.

It was probably crush depth that got him. Was there any hull damage before you went deep? Any warnings from your crew before lights out?

Thermal layers are activated in TMO, so if he was running quietly at that depth- he should not have been easy to detect unless he was up against an elite destroyer?

Even with TMO/RSRDC I don't remember ever having had a depth charge bother me at a depth beyond 300 feet during the first year of the war, or having much problem losing a dd at that depth either for that matter.

Anybody else had that in the early war?

Bubblehead1980 · 06-25-10, 04:41 AM

Well I am currently playing in a Balao in mid-late 1944 on 100 realism, I go to 550 feet after attacking and when DD's come in after me, only had one escort manage to get charges close but no damage.

I dont understand the difficulty people are having with TMO, I sneak inside the escort screen in flat clam seas submerged often and stay undetected most of the time until torpedos start hitting ships, I observe results then go deep for evasion.I'll try to give some tips below...

Silent Running is key, even on approach in calm waters.Calm waters provide ideal sonar conditions, much easier to hear you from further away, silent running does not only mean your speed is quiet, it quiets other noises as well.Use the tachometer in conning tower next to the wheel that read "RPM" ahead 1/3 on silent running keeps sub below 50 RPM, which makes you difficult to hear.

Maintain small profile, keep bow pointed at closest escort is possible so you are presenting small AOB to target.

Try to plot attacks out before hand on the nav map, get in 500 yards or so off an outside column of convoy, flank escorts usually stay about 2000 yards off the flanks, so basically escort will usually be 1500 yards or so, at silent running and slow speed, they shouldnt pick you up, they may, it varies but 98% of the time even in ideal conditions for sonar/hydrophones, they dont know im there.

Now for submerged evasion...

My typical evasion is based on Cdr Tommy Dykers method and has some of my own mixed in to counter TMO's escort, Dykers commanded the USS Jack for 4 or patrols and was very successful.

Say you just sank a big tanker and a couple escorts are heading your way, say youre in a Gato, order test depth of 300 feet, try to get there nd stay quiet and slow unless absolute emergency.DD roars in pinging away, youre leveled off at 300, when he stops pinging and is roaring overhead, order 50-75 feet more in depth, go to ahead flank, this will cause your boat to go deep and the escort has already set charges to explode around the depth when he last pinged you.So say you make it to 350 feet or almost, the charges will blow up at 285-310 feet usually(estimated from watching them via external cam) Thats right, the DD sets charges to blow at your last known depth which he obtains via pinging.Now after charges blow and youve been running at flank for 45 seconds or so, cut speed, order right or left full rudder, allow the momentum to take you through the turn.When speed gets to zero, order ahead 1/3(or 1 knot via the knot o meter) and 20 degrees rudder.

So now youre at 350 on a different course than before the charges were dropped.The second escort is looking, say he is pinging and heading your way, just wait for himhes near, order rudder amidships, roaring overhead, ahead flank! maintain depth though this time, after another 45 second run at flank, all stop, now order full rudder, as long as its the OPPOSITE of the last attack.So, if last time you ordered right rudder, go left rudder and vice versa.Again, all stop, allow momentum to carry you through.Then back to 1 knot until next attack, if there is another.

This creates a constantly moving and twisting target that is never on same course, i've found it really does confuse the hell out of even the best TMO escort., esp after you do it a few times.As in RL, sometimes escorts just get lucky and that one close charge ruins your day, but this tactic really works in the game, try it.

Now, sometimes you need more depth, so if needed go deeper.I try to stay within historic limits of the boat I am using.Gatos for example while capable of going much deeper than 300 feet, in the war they didnt know this and rarely exceeded test depth more than 50-75 feet on purpose, some battle damaged ones sank deep before could be recovered but they didnt go to say 500 feet on purpose.A Balao though with test depth of 412 feet could safely go to 600 feet and many did on purpose.

Hope this helped some, any questions, ask.

Capt. Morgan · 06-25-10, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

...Then I went to 580 feet. It was there a depth charge sunk my boat. Or was it? Maybe it passed crush depth. ...

It's also possible that the force of a near-miss above your boat drove it deeper - below crush depth (just as a near miss below can drive it up).

Not sure if it's modeled in the game, but I keep at least 25' above where I think my crush-depth might be for that reason. I've taken my Sargo to 370' in tests. In combat, 320 is as deep as I'll go.

McHibbins · 06-26-10, 06:19 PM

Does TMO using natural sinking mechanics or stock hitpoints ?

onelifecrisis · 06-28-10, 07:09 AM

So, just to confirm, 2.0 is the very latest version of TMO and it has everything included? There are no extra files I need to DL from anywhere else? I can just install TMO2 over patched SH4 and I'm good to go?

Also, please tell me this does work with the Steam version of SH4...

sergei · 06-28-10, 07:15 AM

Yep, TMO 2.0 is all inclusive.
No extras needed.

Dunno about the STEAM thing though.

AVGWarhawk · 06-28-10, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

So, just to confirm, 2.0 is the very latest version of TMO and it has everything included? There are no extra files I need to DL from anywhere else? I can just install TMO2 over patched SH4 and I'm good to go?

Also, please tell me this does work with the Steam version of SH4...

Need the uboat addone 1.5 for TMO. I think you said you got that in another thread. TMO is complete. No fuss, no muss.

Ducimus · 06-28-10, 10:16 AM

I wouldn't say its "complete" as in "finished" but it's complete in that it's gotten all that *I* am going to do with it.

If i do another update it will be of fixing bugs if some come up, coupled with Vickers03 and Captain America's work on the interiors, (link) along with nisgesis work on the 3d TDC ( link) if possible. I may also fold in my Uboat mod work in progress to try and get both "under one roof" as it were, but that is undecided.

irish1958 · 06-28-10, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I wouldn't say its "complete" as in "finished" but it's complete in that it's gotten all that *I* am going to do with it.

If i do another update it will be of fixing bugs if some come up, coupled with Vickers03 and Captain America's work on the interiors, (link) along with nisgesis work on the 3d TDC ( link) if possible. I may also fold in my Uboat mod work in progress to try and get both "under one roof" as it were, but that is undecided.

These great additions would add vast new game-play to TMO.
Please do it.

onelifecrisis · 06-29-10, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I wouldn't say its "complete" as in "finished" but it's complete in that it's gotten all that *I* am going to do with it.

If i do another update it will be of fixing bugs if some come up, coupled with Vickers03 and Captain America's work on the interiors, (link) along with nisgesis work on the 3d TDC ( link) if possible. I may also fold in my Uboat mod work in progress to try and get both "under one roof" as it were, but that is undecided.

I was told Vickers03's work on interiors was already included in TMO - not so?

razark · 06-29-10, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

I was told Vickers03's work on interiors was already included in TMO - not so?

It is, sort of.

The included version is an older one. There were a few changes made after the version included in TMO.

sergei · 06-29-10, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razark

It is, sort of.
The included version is an older one.

Right. I didn't realise that.
Thanks for the heads up.

McHibbins · 06-30-10, 06:36 AM

After months of RFB I´ll try TMO 2.0 after a clean reinstall. Is RSRDC recommendable with TMO ?

sergei · 06-30-10, 06:50 AM

I'd be inclined to try it without.
Ducimus totally reworked all the traffic layers.
I really like TMO traffic.
I tend to run into a nice mix of singles and small convoys, with the occasional large convoy.

McHibbins · 06-30-10, 07:08 AM

Hmm...ok.

Maybe it sounds odd but I like the reduced traffic in RSRDC forced me to do an intensive search for an target which sometimes results in returning home out of fuel with many torps left ( realistic imho : not encountering a target every minute)
How is that in TMO ? Are the "big battles" included too?

06-26-10, 06:19 PM	#2464
McHibbins Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Good old Germany Posts: 739 Downloads: 80 Uploads: 0	Does TMO using natural sinking mechanics or stock hitpoints ? __________________

06-28-10, 07:09 AM	#2465
onelifecrisis Maverick Modder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: England Posts: 3,895 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 3	n00b question... So, just to confirm, 2.0 is the very latest version of TMO and it has everything included? There are no extra files I need to DL from anywhere else? I can just install TMO2 over patched SH4 and I'm good to go? Also, please tell me this does work with the Steam version of SH4...

06-30-10, 06:36 AM	#2473
McHibbins Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Good old Germany Posts: 739 Downloads: 80 Uploads: 0	After months of RFB I´ll try TMO 2.0 after a clean reinstall. Is RSRDC recommendable with TMO ? __________________

06-30-10, 07:08 AM	#2475
McHibbins Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Good old Germany Posts: 739 Downloads: 80 Uploads: 0	Hmm...ok. Maybe it sounds odd but I like the reduced traffic in RSRDC forced me to do an intensive search for an target which sometimes results in returning home out of fuel with many torps left ( realistic imho : not encountering a target every minute) How is that in TMO ? Are the "big battles" included too? __________________

06-25-10, 04:41 AM	#2462
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,121 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	Well I am currently playing in a Balao in mid-late 1944 on 100 realism, I go to 550 feet after attacking and when DD's come in after me, only had one escort manage to get charges close but no damage. I dont understand the difficulty people are having with TMO, I sneak inside the escort screen in flat clam seas submerged often and stay undetected most of the time until torpedos start hitting ships, I observe results then go deep for evasion.I'll try to give some tips below... Silent Running is key, even on approach in calm waters.Calm waters provide ideal sonar conditions, much easier to hear you from further away, silent running does not only mean your speed is quiet, it quiets other noises as well.Use the tachometer in conning tower next to the wheel that read "RPM" ahead 1/3 on silent running keeps sub below 50 RPM, which makes you difficult to hear. Maintain small profile, keep bow pointed at closest escort is possible so you are presenting small AOB to target. Try to plot attacks out before hand on the nav map, get in 500 yards or so off an outside column of convoy, flank escorts usually stay about 2000 yards off the flanks, so basically escort will usually be 1500 yards or so, at silent running and slow speed, they shouldnt pick you up, they may, it varies but 98% of the time even in ideal conditions for sonar/hydrophones, they dont know im there. Now for submerged evasion... My typical evasion is based on Cdr Tommy Dykers method and has some of my own mixed in to counter TMO's escort, Dykers commanded the USS Jack for 4 or patrols and was very successful. Say you just sank a big tanker and a couple escorts are heading your way, say youre in a Gato, order test depth of 300 feet, try to get there nd stay quiet and slow unless absolute emergency.DD roars in pinging away, youre leveled off at 300, when he stops pinging and is roaring overhead, order 50-75 feet more in depth, go to ahead flank, this will cause your boat to go deep and the escort has already set charges to explode around the depth when he last pinged you.So say you make it to 350 feet or almost, the charges will blow up at 285-310 feet usually(estimated from watching them via external cam) Thats right, the DD sets charges to blow at your last known depth which he obtains via pinging.Now after charges blow and youve been running at flank for 45 seconds or so, cut speed, order right or left full rudder, allow the momentum to take you through the turn.When speed gets to zero, order ahead 1/3(or 1 knot via the knot o meter) and 20 degrees rudder. So now youre at 350 on a different course than before the charges were dropped.The second escort is looking, say he is pinging and heading your way, just wait for himhes near, order rudder amidships, roaring overhead, ahead flank! maintain depth though this time, after another 45 second run at flank, all stop, now order full rudder, as long as its the OPPOSITE of the last attack.So, if last time you ordered right rudder, go left rudder and vice versa.Again, all stop, allow momentum to carry you through.Then back to 1 knot until next attack, if there is another. This creates a constantly moving and twisting target that is never on same course, i've found it really does confuse the hell out of even the best TMO escort., esp after you do it a few times.As in RL, sometimes escorts just get lucky and that one close charge ruins your day, but this tactic really works in the game, try it. Now, sometimes you need more depth, so if needed go deeper.I try to stay within historic limits of the boat I am using.Gatos for example while capable of going much deeper than 300 feet, in the war they didnt know this and rarely exceeded test depth more than 50-75 feet on purpose, some battle damaged ones sank deep before could be recovered but they didnt go to say 500 feet on purpose.A Balao though with test depth of 412 feet could safely go to 600 feet and many did on purpose. Hope this helped some, any questions, ask.

06-28-10, 07:15 AM	#2466
sergei Sea Lord Join Date: May 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 1,788 Downloads: 405 Uploads: 29	Yep, TMO 2.0 is all inclusive. No extras needed. Dunno about the STEAM thing though.

06-28-10, 10:16 AM	#2468
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	I wouldn't say its "complete" as in "finished" but it's complete in that it's gotten all that I am going to do with it. If i do another update it will be of fixing bugs if some come up, coupled with Vickers03 and Captain America's work on the interiors, (link) along with nisgesis work on the 3d TDC ( link) if possible. I may also fold in my Uboat mod work in progress to try and get both "under one roof" as it were, but that is undecided.

06-30-10, 06:50 AM	#2474
sergei Sea Lord Join Date: May 2008 Location: London UK Posts: 1,788 Downloads: 405 Uploads: 29	I'd be inclined to try it without. Ducimus totally reworked all the traffic layers. I really like TMO traffic. I tend to run into a nice mix of singles and small convoys, with the occasional large convoy.