Report: Israel attacks flotilla, 10 die

Originally Posted by MH

Common man... just drink you beer and play your guitar....

Maybe you should stick with molesting Palestinian kids...Steve's been here a lot longer then you so better watch it.

[MH]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Maybe you should stick with molesting Palestinian kids...Steve's been here a lot longer then you so better watch it.

You should stick to benign a fish.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Why stop with 1948? If the land should be "given back", why not reinstate the Ottoman Empire and give it all back to the Turks? Why not go back to Alexander and give it all back to the Greeks? Or the Italians?

That is an idea Steve! In an effort to make a more unified and harmonious world I propose we revert all Eurasian national boarders to their pre-1500AD lines. The following changes will be made:
The PRC, Iran, Afghanistan, half of Iraq, half of Turkey, North and South Korea, Kashmir, southern Siberia, all of Russia south and east of Moscow will be given to Mongolia.

All lands along the eastern med coast will be given to Egypt with the following exceptions, Israel, Lebanon and coastal Syria will be claimed in the name of the Pope.

Now Steve as you were around during this time I think you will agree that this arrangment will be in the best interest of all parties.

Originally Posted by MH

You should stick to benign a fish.

Tell me, how easy is it for an average Israeli to leave Israel? What about when the military asks you to come back? Do you have to go? Will they send Mossad after you if you don't return? Doesn't sound too free and democratic to me.

And how about those Orthodox Jewish, they don't have to go to the military. It must be because they are more holy then for example you are.

[MH]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Tell me, how easy is it for an average Israeli to leave Israel? What about when the military asks you to come back? Do you have to go? Will they send Mossad after you?

And how about those Orthodox Jewish, they don't have to go to the military. It must be because they are more holy then for example you are.

Yeah yeah and we eat only humus an falafel(i like to spice it up with Palestinian kid from time to time) and ride camels to work with machine gun at ready.

Originally Posted by MH

Yeah yeah and we eat only humus an falafel(i like to spice it up with Palestinian kid from time to time) and ride camels to work with machine gun at ready.

So you're not answering the questions, very revealing. Maybe you're Hasidic yourself.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

"Quite a few Israelis haven't been born in Israel. Don't you think it's a bit unfair for the ones who haven't been born in Israel to go live there on land stolen from people who DID live there, the Palestinians now in refugee camps?"

People from a different ethnicity immigrate en masse to one country and replace it's population, culture and religion. Yet we Westerners somehow have the right to complain about that, while the Palestines don't
I'm against the Muslim immigrants here in Europe just as much as many of you - but I'm against the Israelis as well.
If you're against mass immigration - at least be consistent in it.

I'm a bit short on time so I didn't read what was discussed beyond this point so please forgive if everything I say has already been said.
The UN decided to give the Jews a country in the middle east. The Palestinians were pushed out of that country = Unfair.
Yes, unfair but it's almost 70 years ago.
The situation is that Israel exists now within certain boarders that have been defined by treaties and war (as pretty much all boarders, and no, I don't consider the Jewish settlements in the West Jordan land as part of Israel and they should be removed ASAP).
It is their country now so why shouldn't they immigrate to it? What does it change that they immigrate to their own country? What exactly is the problem as long as they stay within their own boarders (as I said the settlements are illegal in my books)?
I'm not pro Israel in any way, I just try to deal with the realities that we have today and that can hardly be changed without causing plenty of suffering again.
I think Israel did the right thing with the flotilla!
I think Israel does the wrong thing with the settlements!

How come that many members of this forum find it all to well if foreigners (Jews) come from all over the place to claim Palestine as their own, while they angrily cry out loud if foreigners (Muslims) come to live in Western Europe?
It's exactly the same.

It is not.
The comparison between immigration to Israel and Islamic immigration to Europe doesn't fit. Israel is a Jewish country and has been for 70 years. Europe (at least most of it) is not Islamic but plenty of Muslims are immigrating to it and form parallel societies.
I never said that the creation of Israel was fair, but we have to live with the fact that it is there.

And now don't start the "Muslims are inferior to Christians/Jews, and they want to take over western society" game. Even if it's true, it doesn't matter.

First of all I wouldn't call it a game and second it really doesn't matter.
Israel exists!!! A Islamic Europe does not (yet)!
So again. The Jews are immigrating to their own country while the Muslims don't.
If you consider Israel to be a mistake then this mistake should have been corrected 70 years ago. It is now too late and Israel can't simply be removed. So all parties involved have to deal with this situation and Hamas chose war. Why should I deny the citizens of a country that has existed for 70 years the right to defend themselves?
I also grant the Palestinians the right to defend themselves against the settlements on their soil.
I would like to see that every side stays within it's own boarders and leaves the other side alone.

And just because say, Yugoslavia was a single country for decades means it should stay like that forever.

Oh, wait...

[Safe-Keeper]

How come that many members of this forum find it all to well if foreigners (Jews) come from all over the place to claim Palestine as their own, while they angrily cry out loud if foreigners (Muslims) come to live in Western Europe?
It's exactly the same.

Yeah, the situation in Norway is just about identical to the one in Israel and Palestine. Except from the suicide bombers, checkpoints, naval blockade, missiles fired into West European cities, thousand-year old religious conflict, gunship patrols, mosques built on sacred Western European sites (though come to think of it, that would be cool, the Muslims building a huge mosque in Vatican City), and settlements.

That is an idea Steve! In an effort to make a more unified and harmonious world I propose we revert all Eurasian national boarders to their pre-1500AD lines. The following changes will be made:
The PRC, Iran, Afghanistan, half of Iraq, half of Turkey, North and South Korea, Kashmir, southern Siberia, all of Russia south and east of Moscow will be given to Mongolia.

Then I want all the Viking colonies and settlements back. Let's start with Britain!

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Yeah, the situation in Norway is just about identical to the one in Israel and Palestine. Except from the suicide bombers, checkpoints, naval blockade, missiles fired into West European cities, thousand-year old religious conflict, gunship patrols, mosques built on sacred Western European sites (though come to think of it, that would be cool, the Muslims building a huge mosque in Vatican City), and settlements.

There already is a mosque (temple) in Vatican, it's for worshipping an Abrahamic deity (god, allah, j-a, etc.).

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

The UN decided to give the Jews a country in the middle east. The Palestinians were pushed out of that country = Unfair.
Yes, unfair but it's almost 70 years ago.

But the Palestinians did never give up the fight and surrender to Israelian rule, did they? As long as they don't accept Israelians as their superiors, and keep on fighting, the conflict is contemporary - no matter when it started.

The situation is that Israel exists now within certain boarders that have been defined by treaties and war (as pretty much all boarders, and no, I don't consider the Jewish settlements in the West Jordan land as part of Israel and they should be removed ASAP).
It is their country now so why shouldn't they immigrate to it? What does it change that they immigrate to their own country? What exactly is the problem as long as they stay within their own boarders (as I said the settlements are illegal in my books)?

It shouldn't be their country. They stole it from the Palestinians.

It is not.
The comparison between immigration to Israel and Islamic immigration to Europe doesn't fit. Israel is a Jewish country and has been for 70 years. Europe (at least most of it) is not Islamic but plenty of Muslims are immigrating to it and form parallel societies.

I was talking about 60 years ago (it's only 62, not 70). During that period as there weren't so many Jews living there, the comparison does fit perfectly.

First of all I wouldn't call it a game and second it really doesn't matter.

...which is literally what I said

Israel exists!!! A Islamic Europe does not (yet)!
So again. The Jews are immigrating to their own country while the Muslims don't.

So if the Muslims come to Europe and claim it as their own, it's okay for more Muslims to come here since it's their country anyway?

If you consider Israel to be a mistake then this mistake should have been corrected 70 years ago. It is now too late and Israel can't simply be removed.

agreed
But something has to be done nonetheless.

So all parties involved have to deal with this situation and Hamas chose war. Why should I deny the citizens of a country that has existed for 70 years the right to defend themselves?

And why should you deny Hamas the right to defend themselves against the invaders that have been occupying their country for 70 years?

[VonHesse]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Why stop with 1948? If the land should be "given back", why not reinstate the Ottoman Empire and give it all back to the Turks? Why not go back to Alexander and give it all back to the Greeks? Or the Italians?

or the Canaanites.

[MH]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

agreed
But something has to be done nonetheless.

Something
Something like what?

Hey why don't we just start a brain storm contest on how to solve the conflict instead of digging to biblical times.

Anything allowed from exterminate the evil Jew to exterminate the Arab.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Then I want all the Viking colonies and settlements back. Let's start with Britain!

In that case, as a descendant of the Frankish Sallii and Chamavii, I hereby claim France, Belgium, northern Italy, Switzerland and Austria.I demand the governments of here mentioned countries to immediately transfer power to me and my fellow Franks. Any refusal to comply shall be met with heavy consequences

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by MH

Common man... just drink you beer and play your guitar...

Not much of an answer. Do you have anything real to say, or just insults?

All the people who claim the Jews came in and "conquered" Palistine miss the point that the entire area did belong to the Turks until they sided with the Germans in the First World War.

As to any Arab claims to the area, I suggest you read all of this.
http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=11607