China improving its military potence rapidly

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by UnderseaLcpl

How many Taiwanese lives is China worth? If we don't protect them, the answer is all of them. The Chinese Communist party will steal everything the Taiwanese have worked so hard to achieve over the past half-century.

Or they will treat it like Hong Kong and keep the money rolling in? The Chinese are many things but stupid they aint. The Chinese would have nothing to gain by "stealing everything" and everything to gain buy allowing business as usual and the PRC skims off a healthy slice of profits.

I don't particularly care about Taiwan because I'm a practical person who doesn't believe that the US has any business or real ability to enforce its will upon the world other than being a haven for the poor and disenfranchised, but can you accept responsibility for the fate of Taiwan?

I don't accept any responsibility for Taiwan. Not my problem, not even a US problem. As far as I am concerned this is between China and Japan

Will you vote to protect Taiwan? Will you fight for her? Will you do nothing to save all those people?

Since you asked

no
no
yes

Before we all get maudlin about "saving" Taiwan, we need to be clear on what exactly we are "saving" them from. Please realize that it has only been relatively recent that they have had "free" elections (free with a very large *). The KMT, which is in power again, does not have clean hands.

In analyzing this issue, it is folly to presume that one side is the white hatted "good guys" and the other side the black hatted "bad guys". Both sides are wearing very very dark gray hats.

Here is a question for you. Can you look a military member in the eyes and say, "you need to sacrifice your life for Taiwan. Your life is not as valuable as a trade agreement?" I sure couldn't.

I am pretty stingy about throwing away American lives these days. American lives are pretty valuable to me. I have not seen anything in Taiwan that would be worth American's dying over.

Just one old guy's worthless opinion.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Or they will treat it like Hong Kong and keep the money rolling in? The Chinese are many things but stupid they aint. The Chinese would have nothing to gain by "stealing everything" and everything to gain buy allowing business as usual and the PRC skims off a healthy slice of profits.

That's my hope, but I'm not sure they will treat it the same way as Hong Kong. Taiwan is the last refuge of the Chinese Nationalist Party, and I expect there will be some purges.

I don't accept any responsibility for Taiwan. Not my problem, not even a US problem. As far as I am concerned this is between China and Japan

I tend to agree, but it isn't a popular persepctive.

Since you asked

no
no
yes

What will you do to save them or help them?

Before we all get maudlin about "saving" Taiwan, we need to be clear on what exactly we are "saving" them from. Please realize that it has only been relatively recent that they have had "free" elections (free with a very large *). The KMT, which is in power again, does not have clean hands.

I wouldn't call the idea of helping Taiwan "maudlin" at all, just as I would not dismiss the fate of Israel without serious thought. The KMT may not have clean hands, but it beats the hell out of the Communist party, and the standard of living in Taiwan is a lot higher than it is the Western part of China.

In analyzing this issue, it is folly to presume that one side is the white hatted "good guys" and the other side the black hatted "bad guys". Both sides are wearing very very dark gray hats.

I don't presume that one side is good and the other is bad, but I apologize if I led you to believe that. What I believe is that communism or any strong state is harmful to prosperity. That's why I always go off on those libertarian rants about our own government.

Here is a question for you. Can you look a military member in the eyes and say, "you need to sacrifice your life for Taiwan. Your life is not as valuable as a trade agreement?" I sure couldn't.

I can, and I wouldn't feel bad about it at all. I didn't fight in Iraq because I honestly thought they had WMDs and the delivery systems they needed. I fought for the Kurds and for the fact that America stood to benefit from conrtrol of the Iraqi oil supply. Those reasons are more than enough excuse for me to put my life in jepoardy. Those reasons cost the lives of many of my comrades, but they all died honorably, knowing that they had put their lives at risk for people they didn't know. Yes, I will risk my life so you can pay ten cents less at the pump. That's what it means to me to be a soldier.

I see the welfare of my nation and the welfare of oppressed peoples the world over as being a cause worth fighting and dying for.

I am pretty stingy about throwing away American lives these days. American lives are pretty valuable to me. I have not seen anything in Taiwan that would be worth American's dying over.

Then why fight for anyone? Why not let genocides continue unabated? Would you simply let them die? I wouldn't, which is why I have fought.

Just one old guy's worthless opinion.

Don't be like that. I respect your opinions and so do a lot of other subsimmers. I just don't understand why you would willingly consign a nation of millions to their fate at the hands of a government that we know will kill people just to save the lives of Americans who are willing to fight and die for their cause. We knew what we signed up for, and if we signed up for something else then we don't belong in the ranks. That's just one young guy's worthless opinion