Patroling submerged

BillBam · 06-09-10, 04:20 PM

Just because early war doctrine and early war captains used faulty methods doesn't mean we are required to follow their mistakes. They didn't sink much in those early years either. I have been using the Donation Narwahl in my current career (7 patrols in) and have found it dives in more than enough time to evade detection with SD radar.

Captain Vlad · 06-09-10, 05:07 PM

Keep in mind that every good skipper will develop their own style. If you have good results by using the 'periscope watch' technique, more power to ya'.

My own tactics differ markedly from RR's for example, but I still sink a whole lot of ships.

Red Devil · 06-09-10, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillBam

Just because early war doctrine and early war captains used faulty methods doesn't mean we are required to follow their mistakes. They didn't sink much in those early years either. I have been using the Donation Narwahl in my current career (7 patrols in) and have found it dives in more than enough time to evade detection with SD radar.

Thats cause they had crap torps!

Armistead · 06-09-10, 08:09 PM

Only time I patrol underwater is to yo you in a S boat since sonar only works dived.

Bubblehead1980 · 06-09-10, 11:36 PM

Was in no way saying anyone had to patrol submerged.Just saying since the pre war tactic of being a slightly mobile minefield, just staying under during day and surfacing at night was very common first couple years of the war, I began to follow the doctrine if playing in 41, 42 and early 43 because it adds to the challenge.Once I get into late 43 and on I stay on surface most of the time as they did in RL. Up to the player of course. One boo boo they made is giving us the TBT from day one of the war, US subs didnt do night surface attacks ( few brave skippers who winged it and did night surface attacks without training) until 43 or so.Again, up to player.

Rockin Robbins · 06-10-10, 04:38 AM

What they don't tell you is that the reason tactics changed wasn't that the captains changed their minds. The ostriches who hid all day were fired and sent to pound sand on the beaches of Japanese infested islands and new blood, who were willing to fight their boats were brought in to get the job done.

The one who made that happen was Admiral Lockwood, who wasn't afraid to make wholesale changes necessary to get some production out of the boats. It wasn't as if they were really safe hiding underwater all day anyway. It wasn't as if changing the plan to surfaced patrol was going to cost more American lives. It was that those sacrifices would actually have some justification when the submarines were producing victory instead of pursuing some pipe dream of just trying to survive.

Lockwood had no sympathy for that view. You fought your boat or you became cannon fodder on a beach somewhere. At least there you weren't endangering 60 other good men.

Bubblehead1980 · 06-10-10, 05:57 AM

yea, makes you wonder how things wouldve turned out if sub force had not been in the hands of a wise man like Lockwood. I knew Captains didnt suddenly change their mind, the ostrichs were sent packing and the new guys were given free reign for the most part to sink, sink and sink some more.

Not sure if youve ever played a patrol, esp an early war patrol using the old tactics of staying submerged all day and surfacing at night, what a different game, give it a try in early war if you havent, you seem to like a challenge Robbins

Red Devil · 06-10-10, 07:14 AM

Lockwood saved the subs skins no doubt. he also listened to the captains reports about the magnetic detonators. Nobody else did.

06-09-10, 04:20 PM	#1
BillBam Watch Officer Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Yuba/Sutter, CA Posts: 347 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Just because early war doctrine and early war captains used faulty methods doesn't mean we are required to follow their mistakes. They didn't sink much in those early years either. I have been using the Donation Narwahl in my current career (7 patrols in) and have found it dives in more than enough time to evade detection with SD radar. __________________

06-09-10, 05:07 PM	#2
Captain Vlad Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Pollard, Oklahoma Posts: 679 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Keep in mind that every good skipper will develop their own style. If you have good results by using the 'periscope watch' technique, more power to ya'. My own tactics differ markedly from RR's for example, but I still sink a whole lot of ships. __________________ "Stop sounding battlestations just to hear the alarm."

06-09-10, 11:36 PM	#5
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,134 Downloads: 606 Uploads: 44	Was in no way saying anyone had to patrol submerged.Just saying since the pre war tactic of being a slightly mobile minefield, just staying under during day and surfacing at night was very common first couple years of the war, I began to follow the doctrine if playing in 41, 42 and early 43 because it adds to the challenge.Once I get into late 43 and on I stay on surface most of the time as they did in RL. Up to the player of course. One boo boo they made is giving us the TBT from day one of the war, US subs didnt do night surface attacks ( few brave skippers who winged it and did night surface attacks without training) until 43 or so.Again, up to player. Last edited by Bubblehead1980; 06-10-10 at 05:52 AM.

06-10-10, 04:38 AM	#6
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	What they don't tell you is that the reason tactics changed wasn't that the captains changed their minds. The ostriches who hid all day were fired and sent to pound sand on the beaches of Japanese infested islands and new blood, who were willing to fight their boats were brought in to get the job done. The one who made that happen was Admiral Lockwood, who wasn't afraid to make wholesale changes necessary to get some production out of the boats. It wasn't as if they were really safe hiding underwater all day anyway. It wasn't as if changing the plan to surfaced patrol was going to cost more American lives. It was that those sacrifices would actually have some justification when the submarines were producing victory instead of pursuing some pipe dream of just trying to survive. Lockwood had no sympathy for that view. You fought your boat or you became cannon fodder on a beach somewhere. At least there you weren't endangering 60 other good men. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

06-10-10, 07:14 AM	#8
Red Devil The Old Man Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sutton Coldfield England Posts: 1,540 Downloads: 305 Uploads: 0	Lockwood saved the subs skins no doubt. he also listened to the captains reports about the magnetic detonators. Nobody else did. __________________ > > Captain!, there's a destroyer on the por........ periscope is flooded Sir! > Darkness is only the absence of Light; Ignorance is only the absence of knowledge © www.worldwartwo.uk www.captainwalker.uk

06-09-10, 08:09 PM	#4
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Only time I patrol underwater is to yo you in a S boat since sonar only works dived.

06-10-10, 05:57 AM	#7
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,134 Downloads: 606 Uploads: 44	yea, makes you wonder how things wouldve turned out if sub force had not been in the hands of a wise man like Lockwood. I knew Captains didnt suddenly change their mind, the ostrichs were sent packing and the new guys were given free reign for the most part to sink, sink and sink some more. Not sure if youve ever played a patrol, esp an early war patrol using the old tactics of staying submerged all day and surfacing at night, what a different game, give it a try in early war if you havent, you seem to like a challenge Robbins