Report: Israel attacks flotilla, 10 die

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Hopeless MH, yes I know, but he is good for sharpening up our debating skills.

Tell me, are you an Israeli? What is your rank in the IDF?

Originally Posted by eskachig

I think what he said was that the goal of the activists is destruction of Israel. I don't necessarily think it's false, there is a lot of anti-semitism going on on the pro-Palestinian side, down to the activists on the flotilla singing songs about killing Jews and telling the IDF to "go back to Auswitz" over the radio.

And there is absolutely zero anti-Muslim / anti-Arab feelings in Israel, IDF, USA, etc.? And not just songs but also a military that is actively used against mainly civilian and other similar targets in a very careless manner.

Which is not to say that Israel isn't creating and compounding some of the problems here, or that their actions don't result in suffering for the average Palestinian. For the most part, I find both sides to be equally to blame.

Well good. Although the body count isn't 50 - 50, Israel is responsible for much more bloodshed.

I'm not trying to say that anyone helping the Palestinians is anti-semitic or anything, but a large part of the movement sort of is, and it makes it difficult for Israelis to work with them.
Your friend sounds strangely pessimistic. Arafat or not Palestinians have zero chance of any sort of successful military action, whether other nations in the region help them or not. Any sort of serious incursion into Israel proper is unfathomable. If I was him I'd be worried about instability and casualties in Palestinian communities, which sort of did happen.

Are you saying the Israelis should care about what happens in the refugee camps? Go tell them that. Palestinians fighting other Palestinians? This could only be in Israel's favour.

It's interesting. On one hand, Israel doesn't intentionally target civilians (while Palestinians target civilians exclusively), and their actions are mostly reactive. But the nature of Palestinian targets and tactics, combined with Israeli weaponry guarantees collateral damage. What's worse, there is no incentive on the Palestian side to limit civilian casualties as they feed the liberation movement. Israel is almost always acting defensively, but they do kill a lot more Palestinians, while Palestinians launch a lot of attacks at civilians, but usually fail.

However, Israel is responsible for the occupation, so in a larger sense it probably is the aggressor.

I think a case could be made that the Palestinians acts are reactive stemming from being driven by force from the areas where they lived. But it is a kind of vendetta with acts being avenged on both sides. Now it seems that the Palestinians have become a little smarter media-wise, remains to be seen what the future brings.

Humanitarian ships that want to cross the blockade are exempt from capture and legitimate aid has to be allowed to reach its target. But to qualify for legal protection a ship must follow certain rules, including obeying traffic directions from Navy vessels. A ship that purports to carry aid but refuses orders to stop can be captured or sunk. The land status of Gaza strip is irrelevant to this issue.

The legality side will be decided later in courts. Like you said earlier somebody is about to get fired, maybe at least Ehud Barak.