Report: Israel attacks flotilla, 10 die

[Zachstar]

The ship will be boarded but I HIGHLY doubt it will be the come in guns blazing from Helos like last time. Everything will be carefully done on video and they will escort them to the port to check and ship the supplies to Gaza.

Israel is NOT stupid twice.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Dowly

It is my understanding that Israel will be boarding this ship aswell if it keeps on heading towards Gaza (which it will as it was to be part of the Monday's flotilla but due to it's slow speed it was left out). Tho, this time the activists have said that they'll play it cool, but who knows. Guess we find out when the ship arrives on Saturday.

Violence errupted on only 1 of those 6 ships some days ago. I also think that the people on board of the past and future ship(s), are a mixed gang. There are probably the useful idiots wanting to express their sympathy with Hamas, and these may have been and may be passive indeed in their resistance, but then there are also those violent Islamic gangster wanting to turn themselves into martyrs while giving the show a switch into higher gears. So, essentially you probabaly have two types there: stupids, and rabid dogs.

The Israelis will search the ships and probably board them before they reach the blockade (if they wouldn'T, they could drop it right now). Even if they search the ships in a harbour they would need to board them, because they will not obey orders to set a new course, and so the Israeli will need to control the bridge to take over the helm. I assume that they have learned from their naivety to not expect resistence the first time. This time they probably will land under cover of guns ready aboard the helicoters. That's how in my understanding a proper boarding operation under uncertain situational conditions should be done anyway. When you have your soldiers hanging vulnerably on a line for seconds, you must want to protect them until they reach the deck and can take cover and defend themselves. I wonder what devil has ridden the Israelis that they did not do it that way the first time. Their intel must have been extremely bad if they really did not expect resistence.

After the intel disaster in Lebanon, once again tough questions must be asked about their intel services, therefore.

For saturday, they are warned now: so no excuses for messing it up again. Either you go in - then you do it in force and establish control with as much force as needed, or you don't go in at all. Risk minimisation for own forces and gaining control of the helm and engine, are priorities.

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

The ship will be boarded but I HIGHLY doubt it will be the come in guns blazing from Helos like last time. Everything will be carefully done on video and they will escort them to the port to check and ship the supplies to Gaza.

Israel is NOT stupid twice.

Israel wasn't stupid once.
The boarding party was attacked by a bunch of lunatics wielding steel bars and baseball bats. Many of whom, I have no doubt, had a martyrdom wish. The Israeli soldiers did what any other soldiers (or police officers) would do in the same situation. Use of lethal force in self defense.
If anybody doesn't believe me, go ahead and break the law, then try to crack the police officer over the head with a baseball bat, let me know how it goes...

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Zachstar

the come in guns blazing from Helos like last time.

Evidence for that claim...? The Israelis messed things up not because they came in "guns blazing", but because they did not, were not prepared to do so, and thus ended up getting tactically surprised.

Stealth Hunter, you are wasting your time.
It doesn't matter about the legality of the blockade, it doesn't matter about the legality of the boarding, it doesn't even matter about the nature of the goods that are being blocked.
It may have mattered early in the discussion when people were claiming that Israel was doing everything nice and legal which made it all OK and perfectly justified, but since that position fell apart they no longer care about legality or justification as the only thing that matters is Israel good-Palestine bad.

[L.T]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Stealth Hunter, you are wasting your time.
It doesn't matter about the legality of the blockade, it doesn't matter about the legality of the boarding, it doesn't even matter about the nature of the goods that are being blocked.
It may have mattered early in the discussion when people were claiming that Israel was doing everything nice and legal which made it all OK and perfectly justified, but since that position fell apart they no longer care about legality or justification as the only thing that matters is Israel good-Palestine bad.

yup...hit the nail in the head.....

When you run out of arguments it always gets back to "my dad is bigger than your dad"

Article 33, check

UN sanctioned, check

Boarding ship without state of war, (piracy) check

conclusion

All on the ships was terrorists...

Logic for a kindergarden kid

L.T

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by L.T

Boarding ship without state of war, (piracy) check

You can't be serious, can you?

I wonder how many people here would have cried wolf if a South Korean ship had send a boarding party to another ship that was heading for North Korea with the same result.

Originally Posted by Schroeder

You can't be serious, can you?

I wonder how many people here would have cried wolf if a South Korean ship had send a boarding party to another ship that was heading for North Korea with the same result.

Still haven't heard you condemn Christian movements in any way.

The Rachel Corrie has indicated that they will not stop until they reach Gaza and that they are ready for IDF massacre no. 2.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

The Rachel Corrie has indicated that they will not stop until they reach Gaza and that they are ready for IDF massacre no. 2.

Where you get that from? My sources say that they will not resist if boarded. Also, they say that they hope to get to Gaza, not that they'll force themselves in there.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Where you get that from? My sources say that they will not resist if boarded. Also, they say that they hope to get to Gaza, not that they'll force themselves in there.

There'll be plenty of cameras recording everything from just about all angles this time so if they behave anything like those on the other boat did I should imagine 'justifiable force' will not be so contentious this time around.

It's Irish. Those feeble little Jews are in for a nasty shock.

[CaptainHaplo]

posted by LT:

Originally Posted by Tribesman
Stealth Hunter, you are wasting your time.
It doesn't matter about the legality of the blockade, it doesn't matter about the legality of the boarding, it doesn't even matter about the nature of the goods that are being blocked.
It may have mattered early in the discussion when people were claiming that Israel was doing everything nice and legal which made it all OK and perfectly justified, but since that position fell apart they no longer care about legality or justification as the only thing that matters is Israel good-Palestine bad.

Sorry - but your facts are wrong.
The UNSC can declare a blockade illegal - they have not done so. So its not illegal. Fail #1
Boarding ship without state of war - piracy - sorry but a blockade is an act of war by definition - Fail#2
Legality of the boarding covered under the San Remo Manual on International Law of Armed Conflict at Sea - which makes it clear any "neutral" vessel running a blockade may be legally boarded.

Thus, this idea that the action wasn't legal is hogwash. The vessel was boarded legally, the soldiers attacked with lethal force and intent, and they responded in kind - a reasonable and suitable reaction.

Of course, when certain members (OTH, Tribesman, etc) are more concerned about expressing their anti-Semetism, as well as their anti-Americanism (whenever they can throw it in there) instead of being interested in facts, you can't expect a reasonable discussion.

Is the blockade the right thing to do? No, I don't think it is.
Was the enforcement of the blockade by the IDF handled wrong? No, it was not.

End of story - except for those that want to find more "reasons" to bash a nation surrounded by enemies.

Promoting lethal violence and trolling on the Internet is very christian, isn't it mr man-of-the-clergy CptHaplo?

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Promoting lethal violence and trolling on the Internet is very christian, isn't it mr man-of-the-clergy CptHaplo?

Talking about yourself again?

HunterICX

Originally Posted by HunterICX

Talking to yourself again?

HunterICX

Nope, I was talking to Cpt Haplo there. Do you have him in ignore or something?