Report: Israel attacks flotilla, 10 die

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Was the baby guilty of beating up Israeli commandos?

No, but the people around the baby were and thus put the baby in a dangerous situation.

Originally Posted by Dowly

No, but the people around the baby were and thus put the baby in a dangerous situation.

The baby was in danger because Skybird's homies killed a bunch of Jews and the remaining Jews stole land from the Palestinians. Now they are threatening that particular baby.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

The baby was in danger because Skybird's homies killed a bunch of Jews and the remaining Jews stole land from the Palestinians. Now they are threatening that particular baby.

No, the baby was in danger because of his/her idiotic parents though it was a good idea to take him/her with them to a cruise they knew would probably end in trouble.

[Safe-Keeper]

I take it the "Israel boarded and started shooting the place up for no reason" view is present in this thread, too.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

I take it the "Israel boarded and started shooting the place up for no reason" view is present in this thread, too.

Just in OTH's head.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

The baby was in danger because Skybird's homies killed a bunch of Jews and the remaining Jews stole land from the Palestinians. Now they are threatening that particular baby.

ridiculous as always I see.

since WW2, West Germany and now the republic of Germany has been one of the best ally of Israel, providing all kind of support, they have nothing to apologize for.

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

ridiculous as always I see.

since WW2, West Germany and now the republic of Germany has been one of the best ally of Israel, providing all kind of support, they have nothing to apologize for.

Well tell me then, why did Jews have to get specifally Palestine for themselves because of the Holocaust? Wouldn't it have made more sense to have a Jewish nation in Europe? Say, a part of the two Germanies could have been made into a Jewish homeland.

Today there are very few Jews living in Europe, I for one find this a pretty sad state of affairs. It's almost like the nazis got their wish.

[Safe-Keeper]

Well tell me then, why did Jews have to get specifally Palestine for themselves because of the Holocaust?

Because it's the country they identify with, just like Norwegians identify with Norway and Chinese with China. Plus that they had fought for the country tooth and nail a long time, and that there already lived a lot of Jews there. Not to mention that a lot of people had advocated the re-founding of Israel for a long time prior to WWII and the Holocaust.

Sure, in hindsight it might have been better to give them a part of Europe or the US, or some remote Pacific island with a carrier battle group circling it for protection. But Israel is what they wanted, so Israel is what they got.

Today there are very few Jews living in Europe, I for one find this a pretty sad state of affairs. It's almost like the nazis got their wish.

Why should there specifically be many Jews in Europe? Why not Africa or Oceania?

[SteamWake]

Huh for 'unarmed peacefull' activist they were pretty well armed.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177261

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

The baby was in danger because Skybird's homies killed a bunch of Jews and the remaining Jews stole land from the Palestinians. Now they are threatening that particular baby.

You obviously derive some form of perverse pleasure in the subjective comments you repeatedly make.

Try thinking about nice things for a change....you might get to like it

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Easy for you and GR to say something like that but it would be Israel who would have to carry the responsiblity for it. How about you two go and do it yourselves, I don't think the Israelis want to take orders from you two.

its not my fight.

but if it were, and i had mandated a blockade of a terrorist network or terrorist regime or nation... then yeah lol - you could bet your arse it would be enforced, hopefully through peaceful means like "Change course now and we wont blow your ass to itty bits".

of course about 70% of the time... because these "peace activists" think they are above the law, they would be fish food unfortunately.

Im just glad you have all the answers that will solve all of these issues OTH...

trouble is, you really havnt bothered to share any of those infinitely wise solutions with anyone yet so far as i can tell.



the bottom line is, all of mankind are brothers, we live in this infinitesimally small house constantly bickering, and committing acts of sibling rivalry.

I wish that we could all live on this little tiny rock in harmony and peace, but its not likely to happen in my lifetime, or our childrens lifetimes because of the simple fact that we cant even get 11 or 12 people here to really agree or compromise on anything - let alone 6 and a half billion people all over the planet. Each of whom has their own individual problems, personalities and egos.

You have a considerable portion of the global society that is happy and doesn't want things to change and they just want to be left the hell alone.

you have another considerable portion of the global society that wants to maintain power and will play off any group against any other group to make that happen.

and you have yet another considerable portion of the global society that wants to change Rome overnight and go out and take an activist role in making the world a peaceful -love infested "better" place even if they have to incite or participate in acts of violence against the rest of usto make that happen.

my take is, the raid was botched, its very unfortunate that people died, but in the end the Israeli commandos are no more to blame than the activists / smugglers / whatever-the-hells for this incident going poorly.Sure they fired their weapons... but no side is without guilt.

Every group of armed soldiers or policemen etc who ever fired at civilians (armed or otherwise) did so only because they felt it was justified whether it was justified or not in the eyes of legality, civility and law. The Boston Massacre... Kent State... this situation with Israel... the list is immeasurably long.

people like OneToughHerring like to blame the Jews, or the United States or anybody else but themselves for the problems of the world, and while any of those entities might have contributed to some of the problems... overall NO group is without wrong doing. Not a single one.

Am i saddened that these people died?

Sure I am.

Do i feel like Israel had the right to enforce their blockade?

Of course, until the UN rules otherwise.

Do i feel like these activists had the right to breech the blockade or attempt to do so?

I dont know that they have the "right"... but if they felt that it was an undertaking worth dieing for to stand up for what they felt was right or noble... then by all means, God Damn the Commandos, full speed ahead.

But of all the individuals who ever thought of something as worth dieing for, i would be interested in seeing the percentage of those individuals who changed their minds after having died for their "cause". My bet is that it would be a fairly high percentage... not as high as 100% mind you, but surely not lower than 75%

Im not going to sit here much longer and proclaim that those who side with the activists are "wrong" any longer than i would sit here and proclaim that those who side with Israel are "right" or vice versa... because the fact remains

both halves of the argument are right

and also

both halves of the argument are wrong

just what few pennies i have left today. take it for what it is.

[Oberon]

Well said GR....well said.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Im not going to sit here much longer and proclaim that those who side with the activists are "wrong" any longer than i would sit here and proclaim that those who side with Israel are "right" or vice versa... because the fact remains

both halves of the argument are right

and also

both halves of the argument are wrong

just what few pennies i have left today. take it for what it is.

Funny, that's true of just about every difference of opinion there is. But some people have to 'prove' that they're right and you're stupid, no matter what the argument really is about. No room for actual discussion or debate, just victory.

[pipin]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

Huh for 'unarmed peacefull' activist they were pretty well armed.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177261

oh! come on guys! are we seeing the same things?! In the first video I see the turks trying to stop the boarding with water, a firework, a chair, some guys roteating chains... I've seen wrost things trowed around during football matches! (one time a whole motorcycle..)

If there were real weapons aboard the IDF must show them now! that will change things...

I've seen WORST things trowed around during football matches! (one time a whole motorcycle.

So football hooligans are also "peace activists" now. Maybe the police should just avoid them before you call them nazis. Strong logical argument right there