Report: Israel attacks flotilla, 10 die

[MH]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Who said anything about movies?


Its true that some newspapers have been saying this PR disaster is exactly what was going to happen ever since the journey was announced, so it isn't a case of being wise after the incident at all as they have been saying it for weeks.

Yes some did some didn't.
Some think that this blockade does more damage to Israel on international arena than its worth but sometimes you have to do what you have to do and not what others would you like to.
When we bombed the Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981 nobody liked it too then we had SCUD missles falling on TEL AVIV in 1991.
Sometimes there are people who are much too liberal for their own good -that how ww2 came to happen.

[SteamWake]

They jumped me, hit me with clubs and bottles and stole my rifle," one of the commandos said. "I pulled out my pistol and had no choice but to shoot."

The soldiers said they were forced to open fire after the activists struck one of their comrades in the head and trampled on him. A senior IDF field commander ordered the soldiers then to respond with fire, a decision which the commandos said received full backing the military echelon.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...ch-us-1.293089

[Dowly]

Now it seems that NATO is demanding Israel to set free all of the activists along with their ships.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Now it seems that NATO is demanding Israel to set free all of the activists along with their ships.

Thats cool.

seize the contraband, and send their ships outbound empty of all prohibited cargo.

situation over

[Merchant Raider]

AH !, the big soldiers got hit with sticks !!



http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...ch-us-1.293089

[GoldenRivet]

can man not be killed by by being clubbed?

lethal force was justified. it would be no different than a cop pulling you over and you start wailing on him with a club, stick, fist, whatever... guess what you WILL be subdued... even if that means the use of lethal force if the officer / soldier / whatever feels that his life is in danger

[tater]

BTW, as a reality check, the "activists" were seeking to send aid to a terrorist organization. Hamas is considered such by the US and others for intentionally targeting civilians, as well as a mission statement that prohibits any negotiated settlement—the Hamas charter specifically calls for the destruction of any Israeli state. As such, anyone claiming their should be a negotiated settlement is right—but such negotiation is impossible with Hamas, since they say themselves that any such settlement would be nothing but a lie (unless they alter their charter first).

If someone wanted to send humanitarian aid to, say, an AQ region in Pakistan of Afghanistan, I'd be in favor of destroying it. Not stopping, not boarding, destroying it (think "highway of death" here). If it was at sea (say to AQ elements in the Philippines), I'd say you pull up, send a "heave to, and prepared for boarding" to them, and if they don't comply, I'd sink them, then pretend I was on Wahoo, and make chum of them.

[Merchant Raider]

Hi
You seem to think that the ship was full of guns and rockets ready for the invasion !!!, i do try and look at all points of views and different news services not just Fox ?

[Foxtrot]

Medicine,Cement blocks,and wheelchairs should be classified as Weapons of Mass Destruction. Anyone who manufactures them, carries them, transports them and uses them should be considered as a terrorist from now on. Israeli government has to defend itself from wheelchair-bound Palestinians who would wield cement blocks while high on medicine!

[Molon Labe]

Going back to the legalities, I'm going to reverse my position.

Even UN member states have the right to use armed force and go to war in self-defense. Hamas' war against Israel certainly gives Israel the justification to use armed force in response. Therefore no UNSC resolution under Article VII is necessary to legitimize the blockade in international waters. The ongoing state of war is the only justification necessary.

Originally Posted by Foxtrot

Medicine,Cement blocks,and wheelchairs should be classified as Weapons of Mass Destruction. Anyone who manufactures them, carries them, transports them and uses them should be considered as a terrorist from now on. Israeli government has to defend itself from wheelchair-bound Palestinians who would wield cement blocks while high on medicine!

Good thing they didn't have weapons grade bandages in there.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Foxtrot

Medicine,Cement blocks,and wheelchairs should be classified as Weapons of Mass Destruction. Anyone who manufactures them, carries them, transports them and uses them should be considered as a terrorist from now on. Israeli government has to defend itself from wheelchair-bound Palestinians who would wield cement blocks while high on medicine!

This isn't about what was on the ship but what could have been on the ship. Why didn't they let the soldiers inspect the stuff?
How were the soldiers expected to know what was on board?
All they knew was that the organisation claimed that they only had relief stuff on board.
Would you trust a safety check at an airport where everyone just claims whether he/she has weapons/explosives etc. with him/her? Or would you rather trust in a safety check that deserves that name?

@Merchant Raider
Have you ever been attacked with a baseball bat or similar weapon?
This things can kill and even if they don't they are more than enough to fracture your bones. I would so like to see you in the situation of those soldiers and stay calm and saying: Hey, everything is cool, it's just bats and rods.

Originally Posted by Schroeder

This isn't about what was on the ship but what could have been on the ship. Why didn't they let the soldiers inspect the stuff?
How were the soldiers expected to know what was on board?
All they knew was that the organisation claimed that they only had relief stuff on board.
Would you trust a safety check at an airport where everyone just claims whether he/she has weapons/explosives etc. with him/her? Or would you rather trust in a safety check that deserves that name?

@Merchant Raider
Have you ever been attacked with a baseball bat or similar weapon?
This things can kill and even if they don't they are more than enough to fracture your bones. I would so like to see you in the situation of those soldiers and stay calm and saying: Hey, everything is cool, it's just bats and rods.

Are you saying that Israelis have knowledge of all cargo that is approaching their harbors? Well why didn't they ask the Turkish to inspect the ships then, shouldn't have been too difficult. I mean, if they managed to sabotage some ships, a simple phone call shouldn't be too difficult.

If the commandoes didn't want to put themselves on harms way they should've stayed out of a ship sailing in international waters. They were lucky they were only attacked with non-lethal force and not lethal which would have been ok too.

[tater]

Originally Posted by Merchant Raider

Hi
You seem to think that the ship was full of guns and rockets ready for the invasion !!!, i do try and look at all points of views and different news services not just Fox ?

I don't watch TV news, and don't read fox.

I said nothing at all about the contents of the ships. Nor do I care, frankly. The area is blockaded (and the land side was by Egypt). The ships were 100% allowed to deliver their supplies, they were simply required to do so via an Israeli port facility. No weapons, and nothing at all would have been stopped from delivery to Hamas.

The purpose of the "flotilla" was NOT to render aid, or they would have landed, and done so. The purpose was to force an Israeli response, or pass the blockade and show Israel to be incapable of maintaining it in the threat of anyone trying at all to avoid it. They got the former, and attacked the boarders in order to create deaths.

That is the way terrorists work in general (not that this was terrorism). They attack. If they win, they claim a victory. If they lose, they claim they were brutalized by superior forces and gain political power and PR. It is win-win for them. They do not care about their own losses, and in fact the leadership typically wants civilian casualties as it magnifies their "haul" of PR. Shoot rockets at civilians from a school yard, take counterbattery fire, and kids get killed. Profit!

Take supplies to Gaza. Refuse to land at designated port and steam for forbidden port. Attack borders armed with paintballs. 10 people get killed. Win!

[GoldenRivet]

Aide to terrorist organizations is aide to terrorist organizations - no matter what materials you provide them with.

giving them food and building materials is just as bad as giving them explosives and ammo.