Realistic qualification timeline using SH3 Commander

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by sub_nuc_108

I want to be clear about the difference between officers, NCO's, and seamen. The officers can have three quals, right? SH3 Commander gave me four officers (in addition to me): three qualified as helmsmen, and one as watch. All are Overfahnrich z. S.

Then I have the NCO's (mine are all bootsmaan). Two are qualified machinist, two torpedomen, one medical, and one watch. The rest are unqualified.

The remaining crewmembers are seamen, who do not earn quals.

There is a section in the SH3 Commander user guide that addresses these issues, i.e., how many qualifications the game itself will actually recognize for (commissioned) officers, NCOs, and the rest of your crew. For instance, you can give enlisted men qualifications in Commander if you want to, but the game will not recognize them and they will not have any effect on game play. You can give an NCO extra qualifications but if you go over the number that the game will recognize, the extra quals will have no effect on gameplay. I can't remember offhand how many quals the game will recognize for officers and NCOs, but check the user guide, it's all laid out there.

I assume that if you're giving out quals in the game itself and not in Commander, the game itself will prevent you from awarding more quals to a crewmember than his rank will allow.

So, you are saying that the guys in the radioroom are qualified NCOs? And your Watch Officer is an officer, not an NCO? And your weapons officer is also an officer, and not an NCO?
Thanks!

The guys in MY radio room are qualified NCOs, yes indeed. I can't really remember being given a crew where the radioroom was not occupied by two NCOs but if was I'd just switch people around so I had two in there, and then give them both Radioman quals when we returned to port.

In my experience (which is limited to Type VII patrols, I don't know what the makeup is for boats that carry a smaller or larger crew) the positions of chief engineer (CE), weapons officer (WP), navigator (NA), and watch officer (WO) will all be filled by commissioned officers. The first three are automatically stationed in the control room and the last one on the bridge when you start a patrol.

(This deviates a bit from standard practice in the Kriegsmarine, where IIRC the head navigator was typically not a commissioned officer but a senior NCO who also functioned as the third watch officer. The first and second watch officers would be commissioned line officers and second/third in line of command after the commander himself.)

Basically, in the game, if you go to the crew management screen, all your commissioned officers will appear as head/face icons in the squarish boxes in the control room, on the bridge, or whatever other compartment. Only the commissioned officers can fill those slots, and if a guy is in one of those slots, he's a commissioned officer.

Any guy who you see as a "whole body" icon in one of the other smaller and more numerous slots is an NCO or enlisted man. If he's wearing a brown jacket he's an NCO, if he's wearing a blue sailor suit he's an enlisted man.

[Sailor Steve]

I wrote out a long reply regarding officers and men only to get a 'Can't display the page' message. I took a break and got back online only to find the post I was responding to deleted. No problem, since you figured out the answer yourself.

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

The guys in MY radio room are qualified NCOs, yes indeed. I can't really remember being given a crew where the radioroom was not occupied by two NCOs but if was I'd just switch people around so I had two in there, and then give them both Radioman quals when we returned to port.

I usually keep one radio-qualified PO and one rating (common sailor) in the radio room, and switch them out every four hours, so I have two qualified radiomen total. In the control room I have a helm-qualified PO in the standing position and two ratings at the planes. I keep several qualified machinists rotating through the engine room. I've already listed my officers.

(This deviates a bit from standard practice in the Kriegsmarine, where IIRC the head navigator was typically not a commissioned officer but a senior NCO who also functioned as the third watch officer. The first and second watch officers would be commissioned line officers and second/third in line of command after the commander himself.)

I know Das Boot is hardly history, but the officer characters serve to help explain. Of course Der Alte is the captain, and holds the rank of Kapitanleutnant. The Chief was an Oberleutnant, as was the nazi 1WO. 2WO (the joker) was a Leutnant. Kriechbaum, the Obersteuerman (Navigator) was an Oberfanrich, which is somewhat akin to an Ensign, and Ulmann, the boy with the French girlfriend, was a Fanrich, or Cadet Officer, on his first cruise.

On my boat the Repair-trained Oberleutnant is the LI, and always goes in the left slot, so he's always the guy standing at the front of the control room. The leutnant with the cap is my 1WO, and in combat he is always in the right-side control room slot, which puts him at the attack desk. The other leutnant is my 2WO, and he is mainly part of the watch rotation, but in a surface attack he is always on the bridge. I know the 1WO would do that in real life, but he can't be the game's WE from there. I give one oberfanrich a Watch qual also, and he and the two leutnants rotate through the watch and control positions every four hours. The other oberfanrich is either Machine or Torpedo qualified, and goes to the proper place in combat. Normally he acts as assistant Engineer and relief for the LI.

Anal? Me? No way!

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I know Das Boot is hardly history, but the officer characters serve to help explain. Of course Der Alte is the captain, and holds the rank of Kapitanleutnant. The Chief was an Oberleutnant, as was the nazi 1WO. 2WO (the joker) was a Leutnant. Kriechbaum, the Obersteuerman (Navigator) was an Oberfanrich,

I am 99.99999999999999% sure* that Kriechbaum was a chief petty officer, not an Oberfahnrich. I would have to watch the movie again to be sure but IIRC he wears the insignia and uniform of a senior NCO, not a CO/line officer. And everything I've read (non-fiction) re this indicates that the position of chief navigator/quartermaster was typically filled by a senior petty officer, not a CO.

*Edit: After checking the book I am 100% sure he's a petty officer, since Buchheim lists him as such. Don't think the movie would've changed that.

[ryanglavin]

Welcome sub nuc!

I didn't know you served way back when steve.

If it means anything from a hopeful submariner/U.S. Marine,

I give you two my thanks for serving our country in times of need.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by ryanglavin

I didn't know you served way back when steve.

Take a good close look at my avatar.

Oh, beans! Everybody knows how much I love to show off that picture.

[DaveP63]

Is that a can?

[ryanglavin]

I thought it was just a 16 inch gun, never looked further. Cool, though.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by DaveP63

Is that a can?

Yep. USS Brinkley Bass, DD-887.

Originally Posted by ryanglavin

I thought it was just a 16 inch gun, never looked further. Cool, though.

Nope. Just a pair of 5"/38s.

Originally Posted by JScones

@SS: Who's the strapping young guy on the gun mount?

No idea. I bought the postcard in Long Beach.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

*Edit: After checking the book I am 100% sure he's a petty officer, since Buchheim lists him as such. Don't think the movie would've changed that.

And I was going on memory that the book had him as an officer. Of course my copy is in storage and I can't look.

On the other hand that would make sense, as he was a little older and had four kids, and the captain treated him almost as a consultant, asking his opinion and such. Now I have to give a PO back that Watch rating.