Why send your children to private school?

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

But I have a personal question. Let's assume for argument's sake that you are right. There is now no separation of Church and State. What does that mean to you? What changes will you make?

I'm curious.

My guess would be a theocracy, kinda like Iran, only christian.

Originally Posted by Aramike

Funny, I've met far more tolerant Christians than atheists, and I'm one of the latter.

Apparently you haven't had people try and force their beliefs upon you. I have seen just that, through manipulation of the community, the legal system, and physically. Everything has to be THEIR way and no one elses. Tolerance for others? I have yet to see it.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

My guess would be a theocracy, kinda like Iran, only christian.



Apparently you haven't had people try and force their beliefs upon you. I have seen just that, through manipulation of the community, the legal system, and physically. Everything has to be THEIR way and no one elses. Tolerance for others? I have yet to see it.

Funny, I have never had anyone knock on my door and try to convince me to become an atheist.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Funny, I have never had anyone knock on my door and try to convince me to become an atheist.

I'll never understand why those filled with religious zeal cannot live and let live. If i was interested in what they had to say, i would go to them and ask. Shoving my face into it only results in repulse and disgust.

Funny, I have never had anyone knock on my door and try to convince me to become an atheist.

You should go out less often, you must just be missing them when they call on the rounds of the neighbourhood to convert people to their errrr.......non-religion.

[Aramike]

Many leaders claiming to come from one faith or another, or even no faith, have started wars for various reasons. Only believers go to war in the name of one god or another. Hitler's and Stalin's objectives were political, as were a good many others, not matter what their claimed faith was. Only the faithful kill people for being unholy, or of the wrong faith.

What's your point?

Humans have used contruct after construct (religious/social/politcal) in attempts to subjugate one another since the dawn of our species.

In any case, this has nothing to do with my point, which was that, in my experience, atheists are more intolerent than Christians.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Aramike

In any case, this has nothing to do with my point, which was that, in my experience, atheists are more intolerent than Christians.

So I guess I'll have to ask for some examples. I hear Christians (or people calling themselves Christians) talking fire and brimstone against pretty much anybody who doesn't meet their standards. I see them on TV all the time. I never see any atheists doing that. Not that I'm either.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

So I guess I'll have to ask for some examples. I hear Christians (or people calling themselves Christians) talking fire and brimstone against pretty much anybody who doesn't meet their standards. I see them on TV all the time. I never see any atheists doing that. Not that I'm either.

So you see them on TV, heh?

Well, in my daily life, I bump shoulders with Christians many times, and never once has any of them preached "fire and brimstone". Maybe a few have the "Fish" emblem on their car, maybe even a prominant cross displayed. Or even a "what would Jesus do?".

You know what I see from atheists? Condescending bumper stickers displaying parodies of Christian symbologies. Slogans condemning people who believe differently as stupid. And not to mention the absolutely imbecilic idea that somehow religion has led to war and violence more frequently than other human constructs (racism and cultural/territorial conflicts come to mind).

And these are things I see daily.

Also, as an aside, I've tend to find those who are driving with conservative, religious imagery or slogans displayed to be far more polite and considerate than the others.

[CaptainHaplo]

Steve..... your kidding right?

Go to google... type in:

athiest sues

the results..... About 851,000 results....

Everything from suing to remove "in God we trust" from money to a guy suing his childhood friend who became a priest for daring to tell people that Jesus of Nazareth was a real person! I mean c'mon.....

Atheist harrass - via lawsuit - people who they have no connection with - all in the sake of FURTHERING their OWN desire - remove God from everything... Take crosses off the gravestones of fallen military heroes, remove crosses at war memorials, etc etc....

851,000 results..... yea - they couldn't be out to impede the rights of others now could they?

*Edit - you see them on TV.... somehow that makes them intrusive and intolerant? Its easy to change the channel - their "intolerance" has no affect on you - unless you ALLOW it to. If they were out there chasing you down the street then they would be violating your rights and HARRASSING you - just like athiests do to anyone who disagrees with their agenda - but Xtians don't do that.... so who is worse again?

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

So I guess I'll have to ask for some examples. I hear Christians (or people calling themselves Christians) talking fire and brimstone against pretty much anybody who doesn't meet their standards. I see them on TV all the time. I never see any atheists doing that. Not that I'm either.

I think part of it is that those people - Christians and non-Christians alike - who are of the "live and let live" variety feel no need to be out there "talking fire and brimstone" against people who don't share their beliefs or live by their rules. If you're not dead set on everybody else converting to your beliefs, or else, there's no reason to rant and rail about why you're right and they're wrong and threaten them with whatever punishment supposedly awaits anyone who disagrees.

To a "live and let live" person, what someone else believes or how they live is not a burning issue as long everybody has the same freedoms and rights in respect to those things. They are not mortally offended by diversity or by a society that allows it to flourish instead of treating it as a crime or a sin. They do not see non-conformity as a threat against the validity of their own belief system, and they do not experience the insecurity and anger that comes from watching other people who do not conform to it live happy and productive lives anyway.

So the people who are most vocal and who tend to be most noticeable as the "face" of this or that ideology are, almost by default, the ones who ARE mortally offended by diversity of belief and feel that it should be controlled, mandated against, or stamped out entirely. They are the ones out there making a fuss, getting the press coverage, and stirring up controversy.

[tater]

Hitler was a Catholic, actually. He was never excommunicated, either—though another high Nazi WAS excommunicated... for marriage to a non-Catholic. What do you have to do to get kicked out of the Catholic Church, lol? Mega-mass murder doesn't make the grade for that, I guess. (after the war, the Pope excommunicated ALL communists with one stroke of the pen, for a reality check)

Stalin was trained in the seminary. He was well aware of how to use belief to his advantage.

While the greatest mass-murders in human history have been not explicitly in the name of religion (Nazis, CCCP, and PRC), they used a religious methodology—replacing god and religious dogma with "head of state" and "political dogma." Belief in communism was quite simply "faith." You can meet commies in universities all over today who believe in such a system contrary to every RL version of it. What else but faith could that be, lol? (insanity is another option, clearly, since it requires trying the same thing and expecting different results).

Also, regardless of the leadership, the PEOPLE were in fact religious in both the Soviet and Nazi societies—and that didn't stop them from willingly doing all the actual murder in either system.

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Funny, I have never had anyone knock on my door and try to convince me to become an atheist.

So what? What about the insurance salesman? What about kids selling candy for school fundraisers?

If someone is not welcome, just say no and shut the door.

Offering religion, candy, insurance, etc., is NOT intolerent. That term, however, specifically describes the people that want to shut the former down.

[August]

Y'know i've had religious proselytizers knock on my door maybe 10 times in the past 30 years. A simple "not interested" has always sent them away without a problem. Apparently they can indeed "just live and let live".

Seriously I just don't see why such a rare and insignificant event should elicit such strong negative emotions.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by August

Y'know i've had religious proselytizers knock on my door maybe 10 times in the past 30 years. A simple "not interested" has always sent them away without a problem. Apparently they can indeed "just live and let live".

Seriously I just don't see why such a rare and insignificant event should elicit such strong negative emotions.

This is my MO as well.. however the wife has been known to proclaim herself as a pagin. That makes them scratch their heads.