Why am I smirking? - Page 2

August · 05-11-10, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbografx

So far Obama has spent/earmarked approximately $2.6 trillion. If he serves two terms, and spends the same amount each year (which wouldn't make sense, seeing as almost 1 trillion was one time stimulus money), he would spend 10.4 trillion.

Except that it is not the President who spends the money, but rather the US Congress which sort of blows your whole theory.

Platapus · 05-11-10, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Except that it is not the President who spends the money, but rather the US Congress which sort of blows your whole theory.

Don't go bringing in facts in to the discussion. They are on a roll.

August · 05-11-10, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

Don't go bringing in facts in to the discussion. They are on a roll.

It can be therapeutic.

Aramike · 05-11-10, 08:12 PM

It's kinda both, isn't it? Congress' budget is ultimately approved by the President.

It's akin to saying that the CEO isn't responsible for a company's spending but rather the budget team which came up with the numbers was. Ultimately the buck stops somewhere.

But in any case, you're absolutely right, August - this Congress is a disaster.

Aramike · 05-11-10, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I don't know, but I can guess: Because you are by nature arrogant and smug, and it's more important to you to say "I'm right and you're stupid" and kick people who disagree with you than to have a reasoned, honest discussion?

You may be well-read, and even intelligent, but you strike me as extremely shallow and in need of justification just to feel complete.

Damn, I was about to quote the same thing and just say "No idea". Hah!

August · 05-11-10, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramike

It's akin to saying that the CEO isn't responsible for a company's spending but rather the budget team which came up with the numbers was. Ultimately the buck stops somewhere.

I don't know if that's really an accurate analogy Mike. A budget team are just employees that can be hired and fired by the CEO. I'd think a closer match would be a board of directors with direct budgetary control.

Weiss Pinguin · 05-12-10, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

I don't know if that's really an accurate analogy Mike. A budget team are just employees that can be hired and fired by the CEO. I'd think a closer match would be a board of directors with direct budgetary control.

There you go again, always bringing in the facts

Aramike · 05-12-10, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

I don't know if that's really an accurate analogy Mike. A budget team are just employees that can be hired and fired by the CEO. I'd think a closer match would be a board of directors with direct budgetary control.

You're precisely right. I'm just trying to give our adversary in this debate a head-start before I explain to him the way that Obama's future spending will add to his current annual spending (an obvious hole in his argument to anyone with a 5th grade education), and how Obama's annual spending commitments are nowhere near the figures he presents.

Gee, Wally ... let's think for a moment: ObamaCare costs X dollars. Said dollars don't take effect until 2012. Let's pretend that said dollars aren't actually spent (although the Congressional bill says they will HAVE to be), and calculate our argument on that basis.

Oh yeah, and let's use a 5 paragraph article compartmentalizng the facts as justification for our reasoning...

What a joke.

If you're gonna argue something here, at least understand what you're getting into.

Platapus · 05-12-10, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aramike

It's kinda both, isn't it? Congress' budget is ultimately approved by the President.

Nope, the other way around.

The President submits his budget for the Executive Branch. The Judicial Branch also submits their budget.

Congress is the authority to approve the budget. The President frequently asks for budgets that are disapproved.

Congress has its own budget and guess who is the authority to approve congressional budgets?

Congress - hence the problem

But in no way, would the President be allowed to approve or disapprove of the legislative branch's budget.

AVGWarhawk · 05-12-10, 08:12 AM

What about line item veto?

Platapus · 05-12-10, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

What about line item veto?

The President does not have it.

We tried that with the Line Item Veto Act of 1996 (Public Law 104-13)

It was challenged in several courts and was ultimately judged to be unconstitutional by the United States Supreme Court in Clinton v City of New York 524 U.S. 417 (1998)

SteamWake · 05-12-10, 09:52 AM

Yes lets talk facts.

The fact is their accounting is a tad off supprise supprise...

Quote:

The Congressional Budget Office has doubled the estimated increases of some costs resulting from the sweeping health care reform legislation passed this year.

Hell the original estimates were unsustainable.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/11...ing-estimates/

Woops a little more miscalculation

Quote:

The United States posted an $82.69 billion deficit in April, nearly four times the $20.91 billion shortfall registered in April 2009 and the largest on record for that month, the Treasury Department said on Wednesday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64B53W20100512

Aramike · 05-12-10, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Nope, the other way around.

The President submits his budget for the Executive Branch. The Judicial Branch also submits their budget.

Congress is the authority to approve the budget. The President frequently asks for budgets that are disapproved.

Congress has its own budget and guess who is the authority to approve congressional budgets?

Congress - hence the problem

But in no way, would the President be allowed to approve or disapprove of the legislative branch's budget.

I did say that wrong, but in context, the buck DOES stop at the President.

Congress, on its own, has the ability to create its own budget. However, it does NOT have the ability to authorize any new spending. That is done through the appropriations process, which DOES require the president's approval, and then goes into the budget.

Obama's appropriations by themselves are not necessarily spectacular ... but when combined with the $700 billion bailout, and the nearly $800 billion stimulus package (which contained majority non-specific appropriations) and now a healthcare overhaul, there is no way around it: this president is spending recklessly.

05-12-10, 08:12 AM	#25
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,286 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	What about line item veto? __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

05-11-10, 08:12 PM	#19
Aramike Ocean Warrior Best of SUBSIM Chairman Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 3,207 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	It's kinda both, isn't it? Congress' budget is ultimately approved by the President. It's akin to saying that the CEO isn't responsible for a company's spending but rather the budget team which came up with the numbers was. Ultimately the buck stops somewhere. But in any case, you're absolutely right, August - this Congress is a disaster.