How broken is broken? seriously.

pythos · 05-05-10, 04:22 PM

Merchant ship variety.

I don't understand this gripe.

I have seen convoys with all manner of vessels.

I have seen, c3 freighters, Hogs Islands, Chimarian (sp) tankers, medium tankers, Ranger class tankers, troop transports, and Liberty class. The only ones missing are the small freighters and coastal ships, but these usually were not in convoys.

Just what kinds of vessels do you think were in the convoys during the war?

That being a reason to not enjoy the game seems rather silly.

The problems I have are map contacts with no time stamps, which makes figuring a proper intercept course really fun. The aircraft just flying by is also nerve wracking. The destroyers that for no reason start trailing but not closing to attack or call in others, just being there due to a really bad glitch, make things annoying. The Stadimeter of all Sh versions has been clumsy to the extreme, and I only tried to use it once. The skipper or commander set the line, and the XO or 1st WO read off the reading and put it in the TDC, something that has not been accurately implemented in the game.

The damage models are not the best, and the boat's buoyancy is lousy.

The lack of the correct pitch change at power setting changes is also a bad bug, that no one seems to care about.

None of the above are game killers, they just should not be in a polished and published game.

kylania · 05-05-10, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos

Merchant ship variety.

I don't understand this gripe.

I have seen convoys with all manner of vessels.

I have seen, c3 freighters, Hogs Islands, Chimarian (sp) tankers, medium tankers, Ranger class tankers, troop transports, and Liberty class. The only ones missing are the small freighters and coastal ships, but these usually were not in convoys.

That's ALL you see is the problem. The same ships, over and over. Same paint schemes, same armaments, same everything. It's always a few Liberty/Large Steamers, a big tanker or little tanker, maybe a troop transport.

There's HUNDREDS of different ships we could have in game if only we could properly import them, which we can't till this stupid patch comes out. So yeah, there's 7 ships and it's cool that you're happy only ever seeing 7 types of ships (though really it's more like 4 types usually) but that's a bit sparse for more people.

Frumpkis · 05-05-10, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos

(snip)
The aircraft just flying by is also nerve wracking. The destroyers that for no reason start trailing but not closing to attack or call in others, just being there due to a really bad glitch, make things annoying.

As someone who is still on the fence about buying this game (and happily playing a modded SH4), the status of the AI is one of the main things holding me back. In another thread here, someone said "AI is more stupid than a snail." Is it really that bad, or are people just seeing random odd behavior from the AI?

smilinicon · 05-05-10, 06:07 PM

I don't think all the blame can go to the stadimeter. I think it is in the map scale and ranges. This can be confirmed by using map contacts on... the ranges do not match correctly even if the stadimeter is not used, and yes, I have tried the resolution fixes... it did not help. What you measure and what you get are two different things.

I play SH5 a lot and find it enjoyable. I recently re-purchased Sh3 and cannot bear looking at that low resolution dinosaur. I will stick with Sh5 until the whole submarine thing becomes old for me. The whole PC simulation era is coming to an end, so enjoy them while you can.

John Channing · 05-05-10, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frumpkis

As someone who is still on the fence about buying this game (and happily playing a modded SH4), the status of the AI is one of the main things holding me back. In another thread here, someone said "AI is more stupid than a snail." Is it really that bad, or are people just seeing random odd behavior from the AI?

From what I have experienced the AI reacts in a historically realistic fashion. In the early years they can't find you and if they do, they can't hold you. Later on they find you, hold you, but have trouble killing you. By 1943 they are deadly.

The complaints come from people who want DD's with laser range finders and wide aperture array sonars in 1939.

To each their own.

JCC

HEMISENT · 05-05-10, 06:29 PM

Just a note to say thank you for this thread. One of the few mature, respectful and well presented discussions I've encountered so far. Sort of like these forums used to be.

Like so many others I've been following the forums and reading everything there is about SH5. The endless bickering and swiping has really gotten old as I'm sure most of you all feel. I've remained on the sidelines content to play SH4 until I feel the majority of the initial bugs, oversights and out and out blunders have been addressed by the devs (and our group of insanely talented modders) in the form of badly needed patches.

I would like to say that I'm waiting for the DRM to be cast aside after UBI comes to their senses (Not holding my breath). I'd like to say it but I won't because I guess the basic DRM idea bothers me but right now not enough to prevent purchasing the game. It was my original intention (before DRM ever was made public) to upgrade my system in time to play with the original release and suffer through the initial blues like we all did with SH3 and 4. All the hoopla and negativism has actually saved me fron spending a serious chunk of change on an updated rig.

Threads like this along with thoughtful reviews such as Neal's are slowly getting to me and I feel that if the next patch works out I'll be breaking down and buying the game along with a new computer.

Redlance88 · 05-06-10, 12:42 AM

I am happy to have created this thread, and Like where the conversation has taken us so far. I am from the reasonable people can disagree school of thought. and so far that is exactly what I am seeing. Now I would like to throw a few other things out there. for me the Hydrophone in it's current state is bothersome, but not broken. that is , I can make due with it being less functional than it is supposed to be but really wish it would work the way it should for every one that wants to use it. right now it is only "broken" if there are British subs around, then it causes a CTD and that is not okay. I have seen a few threads pop up with how to do this or that , and that helps a lot. So with that situation as an example, what sorts of things have you learned to work around or may have found the new game does differently than you might have expected but still works, or doesn't work? Just today I found the Optics for the Deck gun tho I was fine with using the green arc targeting, it felt like a cheat to me and I am glad that they did in fact give us a Ranged deck gun optics option in game. (Upper left next to the ammo type when ya personally man the gun) what have you found that should be in the tips section of the missing manual for the game ?

THE_MASK · 05-06-10, 12:44 AM

With SH5 at patch 1 and tons of mods and awesome graphics its fun to play . Been playing since it came out and so far i am up to 7 october 1939 and havnt had a problem yet .

Zedi · 05-06-10, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frumpkis

As someone who is still on the fence about buying this game (and happily playing a modded SH4), the status of the AI is one of the main things holding me back. In another thread here, someone said "AI is more stupid than a snail." Is it really that bad, or are people just seeing random odd behavior from the AI?

Yes, is true. That's why I can't play it anymore, the AI is completely retarded and even if there are many mods dealing with it and brings a lot of improvement, is still not enough. Is maybe the worst AI I ever saw in the video games history. This, combined with the lack of merchant ship variety makes the game pretty boring.

BigBANGtheory · 05-06-10, 03:06 AM

The game is playable right now if you are prepared to accept there are a fair few problems some of which will bug you others won't.

If you can get hold of the game cheap then why not give it a whirl? If nothing else just pilot the boat around and get used to the TDC and positioning tactics in the hope patch2 (possibly future patches too) + mods will address the problems that bug you then you can play seriously.

doomlordis · 05-06-10, 04:52 AM

In the stock game you cant be killed under periscope depth, that my friend is a big issue.
The AI for destroyers is broken and the depth charges are practically harmless in stock form.
The planes do not attack 99% of the time , Single core users cant watch particles at more than 3fps.
Save game often cause CTD or simply disappear.
If your crew are injured many simple functions become unavailable.
Improving your torpedomans abilities makes your torpedos run ahead of ships.
There are many, many more.
However i do like it.

Frumpkis · 05-06-10, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomlordis

In the stock game you cant be killed under periscope depth, that my friend is a big issue.
The AI for destroyers is broken and the depth charges are practically harmless in stock form.
The planes do not attack 99% of the time

Thanks for the replies on the AI, everyone. Okay, so there is now a release date for the next patch (May 11) and a list of fixes in the patch:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=169048

Aside from the pathfinding for merchants in harbors, there is no mention of any other AI improvements... nothing about aircraft attacks, better DD behavior, and so on. I don't want " laser range finders and wide aperture array sonars in 1939" as another post mentioned, but I do want competent enemies after the initial Happy Time period. Being 100% safe under periscope depth is not what I look for in games like this.

So... I guess I'll wait to buy the game, and see what people's reactions are, after the next patch. Sometimes the devs don't mention AI improvements, especially if they're a secondary effect of another fix. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Also, if patch 2 is the last one for a while, the modders might be able to start addressing some of these AI issues.

McBeck · 05-06-10, 01:16 PM

It has been mentioned again and again, that the AIs ability to detect you is realistic created. Just wait till you get to later parts in the game

mookiemookie · 05-05-10, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pythos

Merchant ship variety.

I don't understand this gripe.

I don't see why not, when every ship in every convoy is either a a) Hog Island b) "Large Steamer" (Liberty ship) c) Cimarron tanker or d) Ranger tanker.

If you're lucky, you'll see a troop transport or two. But usually its the same four, over and over and over. And since you're out for tonnage, your only real choices are the Cimarrons or the Liberties. So that's really only two ships that you're consistently sinking.

Uboat.net lists 39 classes of merchant ships hit by u-boats. I'm only regularly attacking 2. Something is wrong here.

Faamecanic · 05-06-10, 06:20 AM

To quote PC Gamer

"There are enough AI bugs to scuttle the entire Kriegsmarine"

My example that happens EVERY TIME I LEAVE KEIL.... friendly AI ships that have the desire to go into Flank speed (Opps I mean Ludicris speed) Reverse and either block my way, or ram me into the shore/lock walls.

Immediate immersion killer there.

And the absolutely STUPID misson requirements.... "Sink 100,000 tonnes" in less than a year. O-rly.... from one little U-boat?? Or "Sink a Battleship".... O-rly...and how many U-boats sunk a capital ship single handedly. (I look forward to the mods that make more realistic "goals" but Im not modding until the patch comes out).

05-05-10, 06:29 PM	#6
HEMISENT Ace of the Deep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 1,052 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 0	Just a note to say thank you for this thread. One of the few mature, respectful and well presented discussions I've encountered so far. Sort of like these forums used to be. Like so many others I've been following the forums and reading everything there is about SH5. The endless bickering and swiping has really gotten old as I'm sure most of you all feel. I've remained on the sidelines content to play SH4 until I feel the majority of the initial bugs, oversights and out and out blunders have been addressed by the devs (and our group of insanely talented modders) in the form of badly needed patches. I would like to say that I'm waiting for the DRM to be cast aside after UBI comes to their senses (Not holding my breath). I'd like to say it but I won't because I guess the basic DRM idea bothers me but right now not enough to prevent purchasing the game. It was my original intention (before DRM ever was made public) to upgrade my system in time to play with the original release and suffer through the initial blues like we all did with SH3 and 4. All the hoopla and negativism has actually saved me fron spending a serious chunk of change on an updated rig. Threads like this along with thoughtful reviews such as Neal's are slowly getting to me and I feel that if the next patch works out I'll be breaking down and buying the game along with a new computer. __________________ Nuke 'em till they glow!

05-06-10, 04:52 AM	#11
doomlordis Wild Night in Bangkok Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 179 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	In the stock game you cant be killed under periscope depth, that my friend is a big issue. The AI for destroyers is broken and the depth charges are practically harmless in stock form. The planes do not attack 99% of the time , Single core users cant watch particles at more than 3fps. Save game often cause CTD or simply disappear. If your crew are injured many simple functions become unavailable. Improving your torpedomans abilities makes your torpedos run ahead of ships. There are many, many more. However i do like it. __________________ subs and birds!

05-06-10, 01:16 PM	#13
McBeck Admiral Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,027 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	It has been mentioned again and again, that the AIs ability to detect you is realistic created. Just wait till you get to later parts in the game __________________ "I like subcommanders...they dont have time for bull**!" Proud member of the Subsim army of zombies Becks website

05-06-10, 06:20 AM	#15
Faamecanic Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Off your Stb side with good solution Posts: 1,065 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	To quote PC Gamer "There are enough AI bugs to scuttle the entire Kriegsmarine" My example that happens EVERY TIME I LEAVE KEIL.... friendly AI ships that have the desire to go into Flank speed (Opps I mean Ludicris speed) Reverse and either block my way, or ram me into the shore/lock walls. Immediate immersion killer there. And the absolutely STUPID misson requirements.... "Sink 100,000 tonnes" in less than a year. O-rly.... from one little U-boat?? Or "Sink a Battleship".... O-rly...and how many U-boats sunk a capital ship single handedly. (I look forward to the mods that make more realistic "goals" but Im not modding until the patch comes out). Last edited by Faamecanic; 05-06-10 at 06:33 AM.

05-05-10, 04:22 PM	#1
pythos Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere over there Posts: 834 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	Merchant ship variety. I don't understand this gripe. I have seen convoys with all manner of vessels. I have seen, c3 freighters, Hogs Islands, Chimarian (sp) tankers, medium tankers, Ranger class tankers, troop transports, and Liberty class. The only ones missing are the small freighters and coastal ships, but these usually were not in convoys. Just what kinds of vessels do you think were in the convoys during the war? That being a reason to not enjoy the game seems rather silly. The problems I have are map contacts with no time stamps, which makes figuring a proper intercept course really fun. The aircraft just flying by is also nerve wracking. The destroyers that for no reason start trailing but not closing to attack or call in others, just being there due to a really bad glitch, make things annoying. The Stadimeter of all Sh versions has been clumsy to the extreme, and I only tried to use it once. The skipper or commander set the line, and the XO or 1st WO read off the reading and put it in the TDC, something that has not been accurately implemented in the game. The damage models are not the best, and the boat's buoyancy is lousy. The lack of the correct pitch change at power setting changes is also a bad bug, that no one seems to care about. None of the above are game killers, they just should not be in a polished and published game.

05-05-10, 06:07 PM	#4
smilinicon Bosun Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 66 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	I don't think all the blame can go to the stadimeter. I think it is in the map scale and ranges. This can be confirmed by using map contacts on... the ranges do not match correctly even if the stadimeter is not used, and yes, I have tried the resolution fixes... it did not help. What you measure and what you get are two different things. I play SH5 a lot and find it enjoyable. I recently re-purchased Sh3 and cannot bear looking at that low resolution dinosaur. I will stick with Sh5 until the whole submarine thing becomes old for me. The whole PC simulation era is coming to an end, so enjoy them while you can.

05-06-10, 12:42 AM	#7
Redlance88 Sailor man Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 44 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 0	I am happy to have created this thread, and Like where the conversation has taken us so far. I am from the reasonable people can disagree school of thought. and so far that is exactly what I am seeing. Now I would like to throw a few other things out there. for me the Hydrophone in it's current state is bothersome, but not broken. that is , I can make due with it being less functional than it is supposed to be but really wish it would work the way it should for every one that wants to use it. right now it is only "broken" if there are British subs around, then it causes a CTD and that is not okay. I have seen a few threads pop up with how to do this or that , and that helps a lot. So with that situation as an example, what sorts of things have you learned to work around or may have found the new game does differently than you might have expected but still works, or doesn't work? Just today I found the Optics for the Deck gun tho I was fine with using the green arc targeting, it felt like a cheat to me and I am glad that they did in fact give us a Ranged deck gun optics option in game. (Upper left next to the ammo type when ya personally man the gun) what have you found that should be in the tips section of the missing manual for the game ?

05-06-10, 12:44 AM	#8
THE_MASK Ace of the deep . Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 9,226 Downloads: 901 Uploads: 73	With SH5 at patch 1 and tons of mods and awesome graphics its fun to play . Been playing since it came out and so far i am up to 7 october 1939 and havnt had a problem yet .

05-06-10, 03:06 AM	#10
BigBANGtheory Officer Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: British Waters Posts: 243 Downloads: 98 Uploads: 0	The game is playable right now if you are prepared to accept there are a fair few problems some of which will bug you others won't. If you can get hold of the game cheap then why not give it a whirl? If nothing else just pilot the boat around and get used to the TDC and positioning tactics in the hope patch2 (possibly future patches too) + mods will address the problems that bug you then you can play seriously.