Why I've decided not to buy, or own, SH5 (and I hope Ubi reads this)

[schlechter pfennig]

I've already posted on the SHIII forum my views of Silent Hunter III. Should anyone be interested in them you'll find that here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=168658

But now I'd like to expound my feelings about SH5.

First off, I need to make clear two things: one is that I don't own SH5, nor have I played it at all. And, two (and Ubi, I really hope you pay attention to what follows, although, based upon experience . . . ::sighs: I'm not ever going to own it or play it.

Last year, when I first found out about the as-then upcoming release of SH5 I was ecstatic . . . and bummed.

Ecstatic because, based upon the trailers I'd seen it looked fantastic! And because I felt sure that, after three years of following everything that had evolved on this forum, and paying attention to the mods that had been developed, and paying attention to our wistful 'wish-lists', that SH5 would be everything we'd ever dreamed SHIII could be, and much more.

And bummed because I knew my current rig was waaaaaay too old to handle running SH5. Although I didn't know what SH5 would require vis-à-vis hardware it didn't take a rocket scientist to understand that what I had wasn't going to even meet the minimum requirements. Heck, it wasn't enough to have run SH4!

As the weeks went by I kept replaying the trailers and keeping up with the tidbit releases with a sense of wistful anticipation. One day I called my XO (i.e. wifey )over and showed her the trailer. She asked me if I was going to buy it when it came out and I told her I'd love to, but that I wouldn't be able to run it even it I did.

I didn't make a big deal of it but, a few weeks later, she said that if I needed a newer PC in order to run it, then if I wanted maybe we should look at buying one with our tax return.

OK Ubi, point number one: one of your (potential) customers was willing to shell out big bucks for the single, sole reason of being able to run your PC game.

I had no idea what the cost of the game would be but, if it was anything at all like I was hoping it would be --SHIII with all the bugs removed, with all the graphics and increased realism the supermods bring to it, with all the 'broken things' (like torpedo planes, torpedo boats and destroyers not being able to fire torpedoes), etc.-- I would have been willing to pay US$200 - US$250 for it.

OK Ubi, point number two: at least one of your (potential) customers would have paid mucho top dollar for your product.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending upon one's viewpoint) we hadn't as yet filed our taxes when SH5 was released. So, to salve and ease my 'addiction' I'd started checking up on reviews . . . and found myself both bitterly disappointed and utterly disgusted.

OK Ubi, please please please, I implore you, pay close attention to the following editorial. And, as well, remember something very important: we don't need you, but you need us.

Let's start with the DRM. Obviously you haven't learned anything since the Starfarce debacle. Yes, I agree that software creators have concerns regarding theft and piracy. But, in my opinion, you seem to have been more concerned with software piracy protection then you did about game content and development.

I work in a company that has CADCAM software. Each seat is roughly US$50 grand. Trust me, if anyone's gonna worry about a product being pirated they should be. And do you know how they control that? With a simple USB dongle, coded to each seat.

That's right Ubi. You could have still enabled customers to play SH5 without needing the DVD in the tray, and with the ability to install it on multiple PCs, too. But you'd need to have that dongle in the PC in order to play the game.

Instead, you've chained us to the requirement of having a permanent Internet connection. So what happens if my cable goes down? I can't watch TV, so I might want to relax and play my favorite game . . . not. What if I'm traveling and I'm somewhere that doesn't have Internet access? Not everyone does, you know. And more to the point, if something goes down at your end, everyone's screwed.

I could have lived with that, I suppose. Lived with it not, of course, the same as being happy about it. But that's not the main reason I'll never buy, own or play SH5.

I was anticipating SHIII on steroids. You'd had three years to follow postings on Subsim. Three years to listen to our gripes and suggestions. Three years to analyze mods and supermods. Three years to learn what your customers wanted.

And from what I'm seeing and hearing, you just went your merry ol' way and did what you wanted to do.

We wanted a simulation; you gave us an arcade game. We wanted a dynamic campaign; you end things in the middle of the war. We wanted the ability to control all aspects of our boat if we wished to do so; you don't even give us a compass, the ability to check our depth under keel, or even historic nav maps!

I'm not going to list all the problems we, and I, have with your product. Far too many people have already done so. I do, however, want to address one topic I keep seeing: that of patiently waiting for SH5 to be modded.

SHIII, from what I've seen, read about, and understand, was a huge departure from the norm. So I'm understanding (not happy, mind you, but understanding) about the holes and bugs the released/patched final version contained. And, yes, the modded versions make a good product much, much better.

But you've had years to learn all that, too. I shouldn't have to wait for Subsim's modding community to fine-tune and fix your product. Enhance and polish, oh yes. But require them to repair and refit such a pooch-screwed release for you? No way!

So, in closing, I hope that someone at Ubi pays heed to all we've posted about Silent Hunter on here. Because I'm very much afraid if they don't, we've seen the last of submarine simulations from them.

[Feuer Frei!]

Fair enough.

[Krauter]

fail black lettering.. I'm not squinting for the next 3 mins to read this..

Also, why so many "I give up I quit " posts..

Oh an you think Ubi cares what we say about them on this forum? Sure they may read about what we have to say. But if I were a dev or Ubi official/whatever, after reading 5+ "ubi sucks/drm fails/etc" posts I wouldn't give a damn about what people have to say. Why go on a forum where all you do is get bashed?

[schlechter pfennig]

Originally Posted by Krauter

fail black lettering.. I'm not squinting for the next 3 mins to read this..

Also, why so many "I give up I quit " posts..

Oh an you think Ubi cares what we say about them on this forum? Sure they may read about what we have to say. But if I were a dev or Ubi official/whatever, after reading 5+ "ubi sucks/drm fails/etc" posts I wouldn't give a damn about what people have to say. Why go on a forum where all you do is get bashed?

Sorry about the black lettering; I pasted a Word doc and it came out black.

As to 'bashing' Ubi . . . I've nothing but praise for SHIII . . . I just wish Ubi had listened and learned from that.

[Krauter]

let me rephrase that.. bashing Ubi about DRM and or SH5

[schlechter pfennig]

Originally Posted by Krauter

let me rephrase that.. bashing Ubi about DRM and or SH5

I'm not trying to bash; just rendering my opinion and hoping that Ubi might value the opinion of one of its customers. Most successful businesses pay attention to customer opinions, praises and complaints; I would hope Ubisoft does, too.

[Krauter]

If you look at their track record, I don't think they do..

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by schlechter pfennig

I'm not trying to bash; just rendering my opinion and hoping that Ubi might value the opinion of one of its customers. Most successful businesses pay attention to customer opinions, praises and complaints; I would hope Ubisoft does, too.

Bear with me - this isn't a hijack

A few months ago my girlfriend and I decided to stop using products that have palm oil in it.

We made this decision because of the damage it's doing to the enviroment (it's destroying the natural habitat of the Orangutan) The list of products is huge - and it's changed our lifestyle massively.

We wrote to every single manufacturer and told them that we would no-longer be using their products and why. We also contacted all our local supermarkets and explained our feelings and asked for lists of products etc - in case we'd missed any.

It took us about 3 days but we thought it worth it.

You are boycotting 1 product , made by 1 manufacturer.

Posting a letter here and hoping UBI reads it is a waste of time, kinda like if my girlfriend and I had written a letter in the local paper hoping that all those manufacturers had read it.

Do you see my point?

Basically - by not buying the game and doing nothing more, you are doing nothing.

If you want to beat the DRM etc - you should let UBI know why you are not buying the game - and make your boycot count.


My tuppence worth...

[Méo]

I'd be very surprised if the survival of Ubisoft would be determined by the success or the failure of the Silent Hunter series.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by Méo

I'd be very surprised if the survival of Ubisoft would be determined by the success or the failure of the Silent Hunter series.

Agreed!
It's not just SH games they produce. I assume you are also insinuating the copy protection method they have implemented.
I'm not in the game of speculating, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they will turn their attentions to "other" more profitable markets, ie games.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

I assume you are also insinuating the copy protection method they have implemented.

Not really, but I guess Assassin's Creed 2 is the game that really matters on this.

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

I'm not in the game of speculating, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they will turn their attentions to "other" more profitable markets, ie games.

This is precisely what I meant.

[karamazovnew]

Schlechter, I completely agree with you. I however have already bought the game so, unlike you, I've seen the bugs in action so I still hold hope that without the bugs and with a bit of further modding, SH5 will indeed become on par or even better than its grand daddy SH3.

However, SH5 is just as arcadey as SH3 and SH4 (being from the same developers). I must've wanted a SIM, because right now, one month after uninstalling the game, I've yet to play a full patrol in SH3 or SH4. I fire them up from time to time to look at the waves. I'll probably play SH5 for a few more days after the patch and then a few more days in December (since tanker ships don't yet have ADSL connections so that the crew can play Ubisoft games during leisure time). Maybe I'll do a full campaign with GWX5 or RUB 1-2 years from now.

Maybe it's time Ubi thought about hiring a few naval experts and allocate enough time and money for a proper open code naval sim. Sub sims are the best of the lot and wll worth the investment in the long run because of the lack of good sims on PC.

[SteveW1]

Fair post

[janh]

Originally Posted by robbo180265

...A few months ago my girlfriend and I decided to stop using products that have palm oil in it. ...

I don't want to discourage your efforts, but palm oil is now being intensely investigated as new feedstock (besides switchgrass and others) for biofuel production... If we find this thing to be useful, hmmh, poor fellas...

So your letters and efforts were likely as much a waste of time as the above post, which in one or another version was written here many times before. I am sure some Ubi people read this, even if it is only the Ubisoft Romania guy that will hopefully then mention some of the negative feedback at staff meetings with Ubisoft tier ones. Chances are, however, that the past trends will just continue.

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by janh

I don't want to discourage your efforts, but palm oil is now being intensely investigated as new feedstock (besides switchgrass and others) for biofuel production... If we find this thing to be useful, hmmh, poor fellas...

So your letters and efforts were likely as much a waste of time as the above post, which in one or another version was written here many times before. I am sure some Ubi people read this, even if it is only the Ubisoft Romania guy that will hopefully then mention some of the negative feedback at staff meetings with Ubisoft tier ones. Chances are, however, that the past trends will just continue.

Whilst I to some extent agree with you - in this world of consumerism and greed many people don't care, there are however, still many of us that do and the numbers are growing constantly.
Asda, one of our big supermarkets over here has now stopped stocking palm oil products because of public pressure - others are clearly lableling the products now.

And if the "Little fellas" are forced into extinction because of man's greed, my conscience is clear.

My point however was that unless you let the people in charge know whats going on and why you no-longer want their products - you are wasting your time boycotting their products.

Writing here that you hope UBI will read something when 90% of the time they can't even be arsed to read their own forums is a waste of time.

The OP needs to contact UBI directly.