6 Days And Counting ..

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by The General

Oops, there goes another customer!

Sorry, it's my policy not to comment any further.

Can we take that as a promise?

JCC

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by The General

Well something's up with 'policy' because the Moderator over at the Ubisoft Forums had to call up Ubisoft, on behalf of the forum members (end-users, consumers, whatever you wanna call 'em/us) to get a tidbit of information about the Patch. Now that's what I call a Moderator, actually working on behalf of the forum members and not against them. Imagine the possibilities!

Trolling the moderators - ballsy

[609_Avatar]

Originally Posted by John Channing

As I said somewhere else given the mature, reasoned and rational response to the first patch delay both here and on the Ubisoft forums I would be amazed if they haven't put in a company wide prohibition against giving firm dates on anything.

I can understand that and that's why most companies I know of state tentative release dates with stipulations that they aren't written in stone and subject to change. Of course some people will moan for every delay that happens but a total ban on all communication? I personally think that is much worse.

[daft]

It would have been much easier for the devs if the community had been less... shall we say "rabid", about things. They are now in a position where they are better off clamping down and tightening up the coms, since just about everything will be dissected, misunderstood and over-analysed before it is thrown back at them. The benefits of talking isn't very great at the moment.

[kylania]

Originally Posted by daft

It would have been much easier for the devs if the community had been less... shall we say "rabid", about things.

If the game had come out at least with all required commands, and perhaps a few less bugs this wouldn't be happening. If the patch had come out on April 12th, like they said, this wouldn't be happening. If the patch had come out on April 20th, like they said, this wouldn't be happening. If they had announced on the German and English official boards the same information at the same time, this wouldn't be happening. If they added on three more weeks of waiting after failing two patch release dates but had said anything official about it, this wouldn't be happening.

Ubisoft has failed spectacularly and repeatedly pretty much at every step of the game here and continues to avoid giving us any information at all about the state of the game or when we'll see it playable in stock form.

If they'd just communicate this wouldn't be as big a deal as it is, but that "rabid" community is rabid because we're having to find things out on our own from foreign web forums and reports of products in Russia instead of the official channels of communication, which apparently don't exist for Silent Hunter 5.

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by kylania

If the game had come out at least with all required commands, and perhaps a few less bugs this wouldn't be happening. If the patch had come out on April 12th, like they said, this wouldn't be happening. If the patch had come out on April 20th, like they said, this wouldn't be happening. If they had announced on the German and English official boards the same information at the same time, this wouldn't be happening. If they added on three more weeks of waiting after failing two patch release dates but had said anything official about it, this wouldn't be happening.

Ubisoft has failed spectacularly and repeatedly pretty much at every step of the game here and continues to avoid giving us any information at all about the state of the game or when we'll see it playable in stock form.

If they'd just communicate this wouldn't be as big a deal as it is, but that "rabid" community is rabid because we're having to find things out on our own from foreign web forums and reports of products in Russia instead of the official channels of communication, which apparently don't exist for Silent Hunter 5.

Once again I totally agree. If the posters at the English speaking UBisoft forums had recieved any kind of response to their questions then maybe they wouldn't have felt the need to come here and let off steam.

What we are seeing at Subsim (mostly) is a reflection of the UBI forums I.E. unhappy posters voicing their unhappyness.

Difference here is that someone replies.

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by kylania

If the game had come out at least with all required commands, and perhaps a few less bugs this wouldn't be happening. If the patch had come out on April 12th, like they said, this wouldn't be happening. If the patch had come out on April 20th, like they said, this wouldn't be happening. If they had announced on the German and English official boards the same information at the same time, this wouldn't be happening. If they added on three more weeks of waiting after failing two patch release dates but had said anything official about it, this wouldn't be happening.

Ubisoft has failed spectacularly and repeatedly pretty much at every step of the game here and continues to avoid giving us any information at all about the state of the game or when we'll see it playable in stock form.

If they'd just communicate this wouldn't be as big a deal as it is, but that "rabid" community is rabid because we're having to find things out on our own from foreign web forums and reports of products in Russia instead of the official channels of communication, which apparently don't exist for Silent Hunter 5.

An alternative POV for you to consider.

You mention "required commands". Required by who? It's pretty obvious this game was developed to try to increase the base of Sub-Sim players (thereby increasing the genre's financial viablilty) and not for the Grognards who habituate this forum. I believe that the Devs left all of the hooks for the traditional controls in so that modders could re-make it into something it wasn't meant to be and that reflects well on them. But if anyone thinks that Ubisoft could fund the Silent Hunter series based on the number of people here they had better brush up on their grade 7 math.

If the patch had come out on April the 12th, incomplete or in a form that made things worse, you are right... this would not be happening. It would be a thousand times worse.

Same as if the patch came out on the 20th and it made things worse.

And, if we have learned anything here, we have learned that even if they had communicated openly about the missed dates people would have complained about that. If you don't believe me check out the reaction over the rumours (started by a Ubisoft associate on a Ubisoft website) that the Devs had the temerity to go on vacation instead of working round the clock on WHAT I WANT NOW!!!!!

In the same paragraph you complain that the game was rushed out, incomplete and full of bugs, and then point to two delays in releasing the patch, which was obviously not ready for prime time, and sum up with the conclusion that they have "failed spectacularly and repeatedly pretty much at every step" . You are obviuosly not alone with this POV, but I find it puzzling.

As far as blaming Ubisofts communications policies for people's rants... sorry but that doesn't hold water. People are, or at least should be, responsible for their own actions. If they are willing to cede control of their emotions and reactions over to a corporation simply because a game does not live up to their preconcieved notions of what it should be, they are in for a very unhappy life indeed.


JCC

[IanC]

Originally Posted by John Channing

As far as blaming Ubisofts communications policies for people's rants... sorry but that doesn't hold water. People are, or at least should be, responsible for their own actions. If they are willing to cede control of their emotions and reactions over to a corporation simply because a game does not live up to their preconcieved notions of what it should be, they are in for a very unhappy life indeed.


JCC

Blame the customers instead of the product/service?

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by The General

Oops, there goes another customer!

Sorry, it's my policy not to comment any further.

ROFLMAO

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by John Channing

An alternative POV for you to consider.

You mention "required commands". Required by who?

Since you ask, it would have been handy to be able to steer the sub. The other missing stuff , depth under keel , compass etc - I'll concede that most average gamers wouldn't notice or care about (perhaps) But steering the ship is a pretty basic requirement IMO.

Having an AI that actually does something is a pretty basic requirement in a game that all about avoiding being destroyed by destroyers lol.


It's pretty obvious this game was developed to try to increase the base of Sub-Sim players (thereby increasing the genre's financial viablilty) and not for the Grognards who habituate this forum.

Without these 2 basic requirements you are more likely to put new gamers off IMO - well those that don't find subsim that is.


I believe that the Devs left all of the hooks for the traditional controls in so that modders could re-make it into something it wasn't meant to be and that reflects well on them. But if anyone thinks that Ubisoft could fund the Silent Hunter series based on the number of people here they had better brush up on their grade 7 math.

Agree.

If the patch had come out on April the 12th, incomplete or in a form that made things worse, you are right... this would not be happening. It would be a thousand times worse.

Same as if the patch came out on the 20th and it made things worse.

Agree, but I rather think you are missing the point. Again , it's only my opinion (for what its worth) But I believe that had their been some kind of dialogue between UBI and the gamers - not much , just a locked thread in the UBI english speaking forums. Then a lot of the anguish and gnashing of teeth could have been avoided.

Speaking for myself , and I've written this in a few threads already - so sorry for repeating it here. I have no problem with the patch being delayed , in fact I've rediscovered SH3 GWX and I'm having a ball with that. I would rather the devs took the time to iron out all the serious bugs and gave us a patch. What really irks me is finding all the news out via a German forum. I doubt I will buy another UBI game simply because of their appaling customer support (or lack of)

And, if we have learned anything here, we have learned that even if they had communicated openly about the missed dates people would have complained about that. If you don't believe me check out the reaction over the rumours (started by a Ubisoft associate on a Ubisoft website) that the Devs had the temerity to go on vacation instead of working round the clock on WHAT I WANT NOW!!!!!

Whilst I agree that there are some on this forum who simply complain for the sake of it - I really think you are doing the majority of the membership a great diservice by lumping us all together like that (again only my opinion)

I also have to say that had there been an official announcement about the patch - then the rumours of the Devs being on holiday wouldn't have held water at all. In fact the silence helped spread those rumours IMO

In the same paragraph you complain that the game was rushed out, incomplete and full of bugs, and then point to two delays in releasing the patch, which was obviously not ready for prime time, and sum up with the conclusion that they have "failed spectacularly and repeatedly pretty much at every step" . You are obviuosly not alone with this POV, but I find it puzzling.

See above I guess

As far as blaming Ubisofts communications policies for people's rants... sorry but that doesn't hold water. People are, or at least should be, responsible for their own actions. If they are willing to cede control of their emotions and reactions over to a corporation simply because a game does not live up to their preconcieved notions of what it should be, they are in for a very unhappy life indeed.

As Ian C has said - "Blame the customers instead of the product/service?"


JCC

Because (apparently) my message is too short?

Whats that all about?

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by IanC

Blame the customers instead of the product/service?

How people act is Ubisoft's fault. How people conduct themselves in a public place is Ubisoft's fault? Really?

No personal accountability at all? Everything is Ubisoft's fault?

How convienient.

JCC

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by John Channing

How people act is Ubisoft's fault. How people conduct themselves in a public place is Ubisoft's fault? Really?

No personal accountability at all? Everything is Ubisoft's fault?

How convienient.

JCC

No John , not at all matey. We should behave with respect and good manners in a public place.

The trouble is, as I said above (and I'm guessing that you are replying to my post right now) that UBI's silence (again my opinion) is whats really hacking a lot of people off. They ask questions in the english speaking forum and nothing happens - there's nobody home, you can almost hear the driftweed lol. So they get more and more annoyed , come here , vent their anger at us - and so on.

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by robbo180265

Because (apparently) my message is too short?

Whats that all about?

You mention the rudder as the example of the lack of ability to steer the ship as if that was the only way to do it. It isn't. The alternative is spelled out pretty clearly in the miserable excuse for a manual. The point and click method is very appropriate to someone who doesn't know a rudder from a scupper.

As to AI you are playing as an experienced Subsimmer. When you are closing on a target you don't come in, balls to the wall, blasting away. You know how to execute an attack. The non-Sub-Simmer doesn't and is going to have a hard time with the AI until they figure it out. As well (and this part is supposition) the non-Subsimmer just wants to blow stuff up and watch it sink. They would find evasion boring and if the AI was so good that they couldn't get close or get away the first time they tried they would hate the game.

As far as the AI for experienced Subsimmers goes have you played past 1939? From my experience in 1939 they can't find me at all. In 1941 they can find me but have a hard time holding me. By 1943 they are beginning to give me a very hard time, indeed. And this, for the Grognards, is spot-friiggin-on realistic, historically speaking.

As far as Ubisoft's decision not to communicate on this game I am not going to even venture an opinion. As we used to say at a company I worked for "It's their company.... they can screw it up any way they want".

The reality is that this information blackout has been going on long before this patch tempest in a teapot. Look how hard it was to even get a preview copy for Subsim. Clearly something inside of Ubisoft has changed vis a vis their relationship with Subsim.com. I have my theories why (and they go back to some stuff that happened with SH4) but they are only theories, so best kept to a favored few. Point being that this lack of information should not have come as a surprise to anyone... it has been S.O.P. from the beginning of this project.

And lastly, and I addressed this above, people are responsible for their own actions Even when you hide behind a nom-de-net.

JCC

[IanC]

Originally Posted by John Channing

How people act is Ubisoft's fault.

JCC

Well, yes. Who else's fault is it?
Cause and effect. Bad service for the customers, the customers will get upset. You make it sound like it's the other way around, Ubisoft is giving bad service because of the customer's bad reaction. That doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think any Big Business would be that petty, maybe I'm wrong.

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by John Channing

You mention the rudder as the example of the lack of ability to steer the ship as if that was the only way to do it. It isn't. The alternative is spelled out pretty clearly in the miserable excuse for a manual. The point and click method is very appropriate to someone who doesn't know a rudder from a scupper.

I've had a look and I can't find it , mind you my eyesight isn't too good these days and I may be missing it because all the photo's are sooooo small.
I can see how to move in FPS style, and I can just make out the keyboard layout picture - but as I remember , using the keyboard gives you 1% one way and 100% the other?
I'm guessing that you mean the "waypoint method" which I knew about because of SH3 , I guess newbies could work it out if they have the patience.

As to AI you are playing as an experienced Subsimmer. When you are closing on a target you don't come in, balls to the wall, blasting away. You know how to execute an attack. The non-Sub-Simmer doesn't and is going to have a hard time with the AI until they figure it out. As well (and this part is supposition) the non-Subsimmer just wants to blow stuff up and watch it sink. They would find evasion boring and if the AI was so good that they couldn't get close or get away the first time they tried they would hate the game.

Excellent point - well made. I would venture however, that without any real challenge it would get boring pretty quickly for anyone (it certainly has for me) - but then as you say, I'm an experienced subsimmer - so who knows for sure.

As far as the AI for experienced Subsimmers goes have you played past 1939? From my experience in 1939 they can't find me at all. In 1941 they can find me but have a hard time holding me. By 1943 they are beginning to give me a very hard time, indeed. And this, for the Grognards, is spot-friiggin-on realistic, historically speaking.

Not made it past '40. The lack of variety of targets and the AI leaves me quite bored after a while and I just can't bring myself to play on. Plus now we know that there is a patch in the offing it seems silly to carry on when I'll most likely have to start again, and as I said - loving SH3 GWX atm.


As far as Ubisoft's decision not to communicate on this game I am not going to even venture an opinion. As we used to say at a company I worked for "It's their company.... they can screw it up any way they want".

The reality is that this information blackout has been going on long before this patch tempest in a teapot. Look how hard it was to even get a preview copy for Subsim. Clearly something inside of Ubisoft has changed vis a vis their relationship with Subsim.com. I have my theories why (and they go back to some stuff that happened with SH4) but they are only theories, so best kept to a favored few. Point being that this lack of information should not have come as a surprise to anyone... it has been S.O.P. from the beginning of this project.

And it's that S.O.P. that irks me the most. For whatever reason not talking to Subsim is one thing - but not communicating via their own forums is just plain stupid IMO, does more damage to their reputation.

And lastly, and I addressed this above, people are responsible for their own actions Even when you hide behind a nom-de-net.

Agreed

JCC