South Korean ship fires on a ship

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Castout

Their ballistic mobile launchers could prove lethal to population centers in the South. . . .with every one having a probability that it might carry nuclear warhead.

Which is why the ROK purchased 48 PAC-2 launchers and the US keeps two Brigades of Patriots in Korea.

[TLAM Strike]

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/...042601408.html

According to this from the SUBSIM main page the two submarines that left base on the day of the attack were of the North Korean "Shark" class (AKA Sang O class). This sub class carries two torpedo tubes with 2 reloads.



This is the larger of the two main classes of North Korea midget submarines. Here is the Database entry I wrote for them in LWAMI 3.10:

SANG-O CLASS MIDGET SUBMARINE

D: 256 tons surf./277 tons sub.
S: 7 kts surf./9 kts sub.
Dim: 35X3.6x6 m
Maximum Depth: 152M

ARMAMENT: 2 533mm torpedo tubes. 2-4 torpedoes or 8 mines.


ELECTRONICS:
Radar: Furuno I Band Search Radar
Sonar: Cylindrical array (Copy of 1950's vintage Soviet sonar)
EW: VHF wip antenna.

Crew: 25 incl. Commandos.

Machinery: 1 Diesel, 1 Electric motor. 1 5 blade propeller.

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by Castout

Their ballistic mobile launchers could prove lethal to population centers in the South. . . .with every one having a probability that it might carry nuclear warhead.

That is if North Korea has any warheads that could be fitted into one of the ballistic missiles. It's one thing to detonate a nuke that's sitting on the ground, it's quite another to fit it into a SRBM.

[Oberon]

A nuke would be one way to blast a gap through the DMZ defences though...particularly if you're not bothered about the lives of the soldiers marching through the fallout afterwards...

[Aramike]

Originally Posted by Oberon

A nuke would be one way to blast a gap through the DMZ defences though...particularly if you're not bothered about the lives of the soldiers marching through the fallout afterwards...

...which we can be reasonable certain the NK's aren't...

[CaptainHaplo]

Its not just the DMZ. The reality is that NK - even if you removed the entire defensive line the South has - would still lose a war with the South. Sure, they would make some serious headway, but they would still end up losing. When it all was said and done, the North lacks a credible ability to wage a protracted conflict without help - and it WOULD be a protracted conflict because the South would not be on its own.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaplo

Its not just the DMZ. The reality is that NK - even if you removed the entire defensive line the South has - would still lose a war with the South. Sure, they would make some serious headway, but they would still end up losing. When it all was said and done, the North lacks a credible ability to wage a protracted conflict without help - and it WOULD be a protracted conflict because the South would not be on its own.

Excellent points and all the more reason to doubt that North Korea will start any war (or re-engage the war since technically they are still at war).

It think that North Korea will continue to talk tough, but won't start anything.

Kim Jong Il and his military staff are neither insane nor stupid.

[joegrundman]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

Which is why the ROK purchased 48 PAC-2 launchers and the US keeps two Brigades of Patriots in Korea.

and you think teh usa and sk are willing to bet a few ten thousand lives on the ability of these defenses to catch them all?

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Kim Jong Il and his military staff are neither insane nor stupid.

Military staffs are irrelevant all things depend on Kim Jong Il and this man probably rely much on his ego like any other despot that of which is neither rational nor sensible.

That he isn't crazy is obvious but no way the man is going to respond in a sensible way.

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by Oberon

A nuke would be one way to blast a gap through the DMZ defences though...particularly if you're not bothered about the lives of the soldiers marching through the fallout afterwards...

Any such attempt will render a breakthrough through the DMZ impossible. Even if tanks and infantry in APC's are able to pass through the radiation relatively intact (Assuming the South couldn't stop the breach in time, which I doubt), the supplies and those carrying it would not and the attack would quickly die down.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

Any such attempt will render a breakthrough through the DMZ impossible. Even if tanks and infantry in APC's are able to pass through the radiation relatively intact (Assuming the South couldn't stop the breach in time, which I doubt), the supplies and those carrying it would not and the attack would quickly die down.

That's a question/point I was going to raise...how would they be able to resupply in a war zone when they're not capable of feeding their population during peacetime?

I can't really see them stockpiling millions of tons of food, especially whilst keeping it secret from those that are starving.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

That's a question/point I was going to raise...how would they be able to resupply in a war zone when they're not capable of feeding their population during peacetime?

I can't really see them stockpiling millions of tons of food, especially whilst keeping it secret from those that are starving.

Individual units would take what they needed from towns and villages they'd pass through I'd imagine. I think also the reason why they can't feed their population is because all of the food goes to the military and elite, in case of war they'd push the farms harder and starve the population more and pillage the South as they moved.

[tater]

South Korea should make the claim that it was an OLD mine. Say WW2 vintage. Claim they've detected a bunch that must have come lose or something

Then they should start offing NK ships and subs quietly. When NK balks, they just say, "pesky mines! We'll help you try and mitigate them."

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Individual units would take what they needed from towns and villages they'd pass through I'd imagine. I think also the reason why they can't feed their population is because all of the food goes to the military and elite, in case of war they'd push the farms harder and starve the population more and pillage the South as they moved.

I'd have thought the SK would have a contingency plan 'taking everything with them as they withdrew'.

Not as bad as the Russians mind during WWII but something roughly similar.

Originally Posted by tater

South Korea should make the claim that it was an OLD mine. Say WW2 vintage. Claim they've detected a bunch that must have come lose or something

Then they should start offing NK ships and subs quietly. When NK balks, they just say, "pesky mines! We'll help you try and mitigate them."

Now that would be a game well worth watching

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I'd have thought the SK would have a contingency plan 'taking everything with them as they withdrew'.

Not as bad as the Russians mind during WWII but something roughly similar.

I very much doubt they'll do such a thing. Firstly, it's forbidden by the Geneva Convention. Secondly, While the effects of it in WWII were inevitable with the area being steamrolled back and forth between both sides, in other cases where such a strategy was tried it usually had long-term consequences. Wellington's retreat in 1810 to the Lines of Torres Vedras in the face of the French invasion is a good example of this; the retreat saw large-scale destruction of Portugese food and infrastructure in an attempt to starve Marshal Masséna's army at the gates of Lisbon, but it also had the effect of causing the deaths of several tens of thousands of civilians in the following winter (One of Portugal's coldest).