Using FAR too MANY torpedoes!!!

[pickinthebanjo]

In SH3 I Only limit myself to using one torpedo to one ship, and only ships 4000+ tons. If called for I use a second but normally I will wait around for up to 12 hours to wait and see if she sinks. For merchants under 4000 ton I use the 105mm and the 37mm. Also I only take shots on moving targets if they are within 800m and the AOB is close to either 270 or 90. In response to Iranon's post stating that ships with an AOB of 0 or 180 have no viable solution, that is wrong. In order to hit a target with an AOB of wither 0 or 180 you slip in behind or in front of the target set range slightly shorter than needed (to make up for the fact the ship is closing fast) set you AOB accordingly then fire. Speed is irrelevant in this case because the target is on the same course. I disable many ships with 180 AOB shots, as the torpedo almost always destroys the propulsion systems.

Even a battleship can be sunk with just one torpedo:

Both the Southhamptons went under in one torpedo, that London class took three.

When attacking merchants, follow everyones advice and aim by the smokestack or just in front of the bridge. For naval ships, aim underneath the main guns. These are the ammunition stores.

When I use keel shots I aim for the center of the ship and set them just under the draft.

In the Type IX it is usually fairly common for me to pull in 60000ton patrols following these guidelines.

[Immelman]

Originally Posted by pickinthebanjo

In SH3 I Only limit myself to using one torpedo to one ship, and only ships 4000+ tons.

Umm ok but if it happens to be a dud you will want to hit your head against the bulkhead unless its a single contact where you can easily reposition for another shot.

If its a convoy you just blew your attack and have nothing to show for it = Now you have to evade DDs break contact run parallel to the convoy reestablish contact sneak in again without being detected reformulate your firing solution and hope to remain undetected long enough to fire.

As the war progresses this becomes more and more difficult. My advice is get it right the first time and fire two eels at worthy targets. If my stern eel bounces off that tramp steamer not biggy. But if I get greedy and decide to only fire one eel at that Large Tanker (when I have more eels on board) and it turns out to be a dud

I can't even blame that on Bernard I did it to myself, I got greedy...

[sharkbit]

Originally Posted by pickinthebanjo

For merchants under 4000 ton I use the 105mm and the 37mm.

Wait till those dastardly allies start arming their merchants and they start shooting back, quite accurately I might add.
There's a reason I removed my deck gun from my Med career boat in mid 1943. Now the temptation to shoot "defenseless" merchantmen is not even there.

If its a convoy you just blew your attack and have nothing to show for it = Now you have to evade DDs break contact run parallel to the convoy reestablish contact sneak in again without being detected reformulate your firing solution and hope to remain undetected long enough to fire.

I agree with Immelman here. You can spend alot of time setting up on a convoy only to see it wasted and having to start over. I try for a sure kill. (What's the saying about a bird in the hand?)
Later in the war, you might get lucky to even get in shooting position on a convoy before an escort picks you up and hedgehogs start raining down on you.
I've hit ships with one eel early on and watched them sail out of sight while I'm dodging destroyers for the next few hours, where two eels might have done the trick. I've tried the "one torpedo, one ship", ala Kretschmer, early on and it works, but as time progresses, it becomes more and more difficult. I've had to adapt my tactics as the war progresses.

[Immelman]

Originally Posted by sharkbit

There's a reason I removed my deck gun from my Med career boat in mid 1943. Now the temptation to shoot "defenseless" merchantmen is not even there.

I agree that the temptation to use the deck gun is quite great and one must show restraint and control over the need to sink everything without wasting eels. I personally use the Deck Gun only on ships under 3000 tons or ships that are still floating after having been torpedoed.

I have successfully used the aforementioned manner with great success all the way to the end of the war in my last career. The trick is to not push your luck knowing when to break off and knowing how to position your boat giving you maximum advantage over the enemy.

Its the same approach as the Fast 90 torpedo attack really. Position your self infront of the projected ships course (in a perpendicular angle) from one to three km away depending on visibility and sea conditions. This will present the smallest possible target of your ship to the enemy while the inverse is true for your enemy. At all times even when zigzagging you will have a minimum 45 AOB to aim your shots at.

Surface and proceed to ahead slow when the ship is 5 to 10 degrees bearing from 0.
Lob shell on it until the ship is 5 to 10 degrees bearing past bearing 0.
Submerge and reposition as described above.
Lather, rinse, repeat until the ship is sunk.
Try to blow up everything on her deck i.e. cargo, masts, smoke stacks etc and then aim the rest of your shots on the waterline.

This gives you the best possible firing angle the whole time while it gives the worst firing angle to the sip on your sub. You can inflict maximal damage while you minimize the amount of damage you receive. If you don't see what I mean then look for your Uboat from the ship's deck you will see how hard you are to spot if you position this way. Sometimes all you see is a speck of light when your deck gun is fired.

[pickinthebanjo]

Originally Posted by Immelman

I have successfully used the aforementioned manner with great success all the way to the end of the war in my last career. The trick is to not push your luck knowing when to break off and knowing how to position your boat giving you maximum advantage over the enemy.

Yeah I agree, I use the 88mm for the start of the war sinking everything I don't want to waste a torpedo on, then when the merchants arm themselves I switch to the 105mm and start firing from longer ranges and washed out decks. It gets difficult and you tend to miss more but you can still sink ships with the deck gun all the way to 45'.

And for the others:
Yeah when I get a dud it sucks but I don't beat myself up over it, you just fire another at some other ship. A Type VII carries around 12 torpedoes inside, thats plenty of chances right there I use a Type IX which carries tons of torpedoes, when I spend time attacking a convoy I get it right, if I miss or get a dud I just move on to the next ship. My patrols seem to stand for themselves.

And in general I give up surface attacks fairly early on (1941-1942) and just get in the convoys path and let it come to me. This mean I just have to sit broadside to the convoy lanes as they pass over, giving plenty of chances to make 90 or 270 degree shots. If I mess up I just dive and call it off, no harm done cause I did not have to calculate anything.

[Lord_magerius]

There is no such thing a using too many torps If it takes six to take down an intermediate tanker, then use six. Well that's the excuse I use to have my crew home for christmas.
"i'm sorry herr Donitz, but that fishing trawler required 8 eels broadside. I know it seems suspicous, seeing as we've arrived back on christmas eve but that's the truth of it sir"

[pickinthebanjo]

Originally Posted by Lord_magerius

There is no such thing a using too many torps If it takes six to take down an intermediate tanker, then use six. Well that's the excuse I use to have my crew home for christmas.
"i'm sorry herr Donitz, but that fishing trawler required 8 eels broadside. I know it seems suspicous, seeing as we've arrived back on christmas eve but that's the truth of it sir"

Yeah I confess to doing that to. Occasionally to end a patrol early i'll dump a salvo into something and watch the fireworks.

[Immelman]

I play with map contact off so its a b@@@@ and a half plotting the heading of the convoy and all its rows of ships and then getting a firing solution manually to feed the TDC.

Missing because I messed up my observations is understandable. Sometimes I get lucky and hit a ship in the next row.
But missing because of a dud is unacceptable to me so I shoot salvos of 2 eels. There is not right or wrong way its just what your expectations are.

[pickinthebanjo]

Originally Posted by Immelman

I play with map contact off so its a b@@@@ and a half plotting the heading of the convoy and all its rows of ships and then getting a firing solution manually to feed the TDC.

Missing because I messed up my observations is understandable. Sometimes I get lucky and hit a ship in the next row.
But missing because of a dud is unacceptable to me so I shoot salvos of 2 eels. There is not right or wrong way its just what your expectations are.

I never really learned how to properly plot a convoy, thats why I attack from the front. Do you know of any tutorials for that or is it something you just pick up? I've been trying all sorts of ways of plotting latley and I'm getting better but If I had to plot a convoy over more than 200km I would lose it for sure.

I only use impact. Generaly 3 torpedoes for the big stuff. 1 torpedo for the small stuff. 2 torpedoes for a little tanker.

It may sound excessive but, even with everything hitting target, I'm still finding ships that simply refuse to sink.

Even customized a 3 torpedo spread on a T2 Tanker.
Opened the spread up to 5 degrees.
All 3 hit. Nose, Tail, and Center.
It was hours before she finaly fell out of the convoy, and required a final stern torpedo to finish the job.

[pickinthebanjo]

Those damn tankers are tough, Those whaling ships are surprisingly weak. I've also gotten large merchants in one torpedo but I was pretty surprised.

[Iranon]

Originally Posted by pickinthebanjo

In response to Iranon's post stating that ships with an AOB of 0 or 180 have no viable solution, that is wrong. In order to hit a target with an AOB of wither 0 or 180 you slip in behind or in front of the target set range slightly shorter than needed (to make up for the fact the ship is closing fast) set you AOB accordingly then fire.

Keep in mind that I also specified rough weather, by which I meant sea state rather than visibility.
I wasn't referring to aiming problems but the reliability of turning a correctly aimed torpedo into an explosion. The sea state makes the magnetic setting unreliable, the AoB isn't kind to the impact one.

Also I only take shots on moving targets if they are within 800m and the AOB is close to either 270 or 90

I don't quite get this in context of the rest of your post, especially...

I disable many ships with 180 AOB shots, as the torpedo almost always destroys the propulsion systems.

It's definitely possible to sink ships in any sea state from any angle. However, for minimising duds and marginal hits, I'd try to manoever towards a 90°/270° impact shot in rough seas.
Would you recommend otherwise? If you think 0°/180° is as reliable with high waves complicating things, which depth and detonator setting would you recommend, under which constraints?

*

On another note, does a hit in the fuel bunker take into account whether a ship is powered by coal or oil? From my experience it's a great place to hit regardless.

[gazpode_l]

I never really learned how to properly plot a convoy, thats why I attack from the front. Do you know of any tutorials for that or is it something you just pick up? I've been trying all sorts of ways of plotting latley and I'm getting better but If I had to plot a convoy over more than 200km I would lose it for sure.

there are some great, if not quite advanced plotting stuff on the newbie sections. I'll go browsing and drop the link in here shortly.

It WILL however require a bit of reading and is taxing even for me who has completed his sailing day skipper shore course (which involves alot of CHART work - which is basically what the tutorial is )

[gazpode_l]

For "pickinthebanjo"

Some great information shown here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88961

Also in the example pictures, the guy clearly has map tool help turned on, so don't forget to select this.

[gazpode_l]

The OTHER thing to remember is that alot of the firing and calculation based to get into the position required is done using manual imputs and calculation towards the TDC. Will be slightly different if you are using automatic, as I sometimes do.