Game end sequence ***Spoiler alert***

IanC · 04-21-10, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Context. Context is everything. The context in that one end screen is exactly as i described it in my last post, and it's all bad.

Well yeah exactly. The context of that image is that you're a German U-boat kaleun who just finished a successful campaign for The Fatherland. It's part of the game.

Ducimus · 04-21-10, 07:58 PM

I love it when people are so wrapped up in Uboat romance they lose historical perspective through rose tinted glasses. Go ahead and lay glory and approbation to the 3rd reich if that's your thing, personally I just wanted a submarine simulation. No flowery imagery required for that.

IanC · 04-21-10, 08:30 PM

Sorry Ducimus, I always thought of myself as very sensitive to racism and antisemitism, but I'm not seeing what you are in that image. Its context is part of the sim, in my eyes.
I think I'll just leave it at that.

Faamecanic · 04-22-10, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

I love it when people are so wrapped up in Uboat romance they lose historical perspective through rose tinted glasses. Go ahead and lay glory and approbation to the 3rd reich if that's your thing, personally I just wanted a submarine simulation. No flowery imagery required for that.

Duc...I understand where you are coming from. But lets not be overly sensitive and read something into this thats not there. I do agree there is no need for the swastika as it was a symbol of evil.

But those end photos conjure up the words in Adm. Doenitz book "ten years and twenty days" where he said the KM and all common soliders and sailors fought for thier country with pride". Adm. Nimitz then also backed Doenitz as he tesitfied for him at the Nuremburg War Trials and said "the uboat arm did nothing more then we did in the pacific".

Should we Americans feel shame in what we did to Japanesse merchantmen? Sailors who where just doing a job? No we shouldnt glorify it (and making a game about it borders on glorification)... But in fact playing all the SH seires actually made me reflect on ALL the sailors/submariners and the sacrafice they gave, and the pride they felt for what they were doing, no matter what flag they flew under.

NOTE I also agree with you that if someone is loosing "jollies" over the lack of a swastikz...then they need thier head examined.

Platapus · 04-22-10, 05:00 PM

[QUOTE=Faamecanic;1369095] I do agree there is no need for the swastika as it was a symbol of evil.

/QUOTE]

The swastika is not a symbol of evil. The swastika is an ancient symbol of good luck.

Among its other names, it is also called a sun wheel, fylfot, and in Germany the Hakenkreuz hooked cross.

The Nazi party did not originate the swastika, but adopted it as their symbol because it did have a long history of being a good luck or righteous symbol.

The fact that bad people used the swastika as a misplaced symbol, does not adversely reflect on the symbol, but on the people.

I do have to admit some surprise when I was in South Korea and I saw swastikas on some of the buildings.
Don't hate the symbol, hate the people who misused the symbol.

captainprid · 04-22-10, 05:07 PM

This is ridiculous! To imagine that a kid who played SHV, had the concentration to complete it and actually got to the end screen would suddenly, because of one image, shave his head, buy a pair of Doc Martens and start Sieg Heiling in the mirror is like saying the same kid who saw a McDonalds advert would become a food fiend overnight.

robbo180265 · 04-22-10, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainprid

This is ridiculous! To imagine that a kid who played SHV, had the concentration to complete it and actually got to the end screen would suddenly, because of one image, shave his head, buy a pair of Doc Martens and start Sieg Heiling in the mirror is like saying the same kid who saw a McDonalds advert would become a food fiend overnight.

I'm with you on this one - this has been blown completely out of proportion.

For God's sake we're all adults here , I'm so sick of do-gooders telling me what I can and can't play/watch etc etc.

Reality check - it's an end screen in a computer game - it's not a call to arms for the Nazi party. If you don't like it , change it. Kyliana has posted a mod to enable you to do just that.

And just to show how stupid this is - we've gone from a game end scene, to photo's of the holocaust in one thread.

LiveGoat · 04-22-10, 11:40 PM

What's chilling about that pic that Karamazov posted is that from across the room it looks like an abstract painting.

Carotio · 04-23-10, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbo180265

I'm with you on this one - this has been blown completely out of proportion.

For God's sake we're all adults here , I'm so sick of do-gooders telling me what I can and can't play/watch etc etc.

Reality check - it's an end screen in a computer game - it's not a call to arms for the Nazi party. If you don't like it , change it. Kyliana has posted a mod to enable you to do just that.

And just to show how stupid this is - we've gone from a game end scene, to photo's of the holocaust in one thread.

Well, one thing is a mod, which is fine in itself, but the company who made the official version is the one sending out the signal by having created such a nazi glorifying image. Don't forget that Ubisoft had to pull out the copies from Germany because some swastikas unintentionally was left inside the game. Germany has laws against nazi symbols for a reason. So it ain't exactly stupid. History can easily repeat itself, if we as mankind don't watch out and inform the youth. That's why the official version counts as a mistake, which should never have been made. Whatever the mod community then does afterwards is another matter.

Noren · 04-22-10, 05:15 PM

True, the swastika was an ancient symbol from India but we have to put it in contemporary international context. It is close related to the nazi regime and therefore banned. It amazes me that neo-nazism is growing, when ww2 happened just 65 years ago.

Im glad that Germany has taken the truth about the holocoust to heart and continue to showcase concentrationcamps and Im just as glad that info about the holocoust is mandatory in primary shool in my country, Sweden.
If we dont learn from history, mankind will just repeat it.

captainprid · 04-22-10, 05:25 PM

Gawd i'm off to do myself in with my noose of piety and razor blade of self-satisfaction. While i'm at it, i'm going to stop calling myself English because of Glencoe...you know just incase people get the wrong idea

04-22-10, 05:00 PM	#5
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,447 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	[QUOTE=Faamecanic;1369095] I do agree there is no need for the swastika as it was a symbol of evil. /QUOTE] The swastika is not a symbol of evil. The swastika is an ancient symbol of good luck. Among its other names, it is also called a sun wheel, fylfot, and in Germany the Hakenkreuz hooked cross. The Nazi party did not originate the swastika, but adopted it as their symbol because it did have a long history of being a good luck or righteous symbol. The fact that bad people used the swastika as a misplaced symbol, does not adversely reflect on the symbol, but on the people. I do have to admit some surprise when I was in South Korea and I saw swastikas on some of the buildings. Don't hate the symbol, hate the people who misused the symbol. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

04-22-10, 05:07 PM	#6
captainprid Watch Officer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Blackpool, England Posts: 347 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	This is ridiculous! To imagine that a kid who played SHV, had the concentration to complete it and actually got to the end screen would suddenly, because of one image, shave his head, buy a pair of Doc Martens and start Sieg Heiling in the mirror is like saying the same kid who saw a McDonalds advert would become a food fiend overnight. __________________ Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;

04-22-10, 05:25 PM	#11
captainprid Watch Officer Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Blackpool, England Posts: 347 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	Gawd i'm off to do myself in with my noose of piety and razor blade of self-satisfaction. While i'm at it, i'm going to stop calling myself English because of Glencoe...you know just incase people get the wrong idea __________________ Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;

04-21-10, 07:58 PM	#2
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	I love it when people are so wrapped up in Uboat romance they lose historical perspective through rose tinted glasses. Go ahead and lay glory and approbation to the 3rd reich if that's your thing, personally I just wanted a submarine simulation. No flowery imagery required for that.

04-21-10, 08:30 PM	#3
IanC Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Running silent and deep Posts: 902 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Sorry Ducimus, I always thought of myself as very sensitive to racism and antisemitism, but I'm not seeing what you are in that image. Its context is part of the sim, in my eyes. I think I'll just leave it at that.

04-22-10, 11:40 PM	#8
LiveGoat XO Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 408 Downloads: 439 Uploads: 0	What's chilling about that pic that Karamazov posted is that from across the room it looks like an abstract painting.

04-22-10, 05:15 PM	#10
Noren 中国水兵 Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 284 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	True, the swastika was an ancient symbol from India but we have to put it in contemporary international context. It is close related to the nazi regime and therefore banned. It amazes me that neo-nazism is growing, when ww2 happened just 65 years ago. Im glad that Germany has taken the truth about the holocoust to heart and continue to showcase concentrationcamps and Im just as glad that info about the holocoust is mandatory in primary shool in my country, Sweden. If we dont learn from history, mankind will just repeat it.