Mormons

The way I see these things is that the older religions can sort of sit back and lay low because they've already become established and are, as in the case of christianity and it's main sects, very much a part of the social systems around them. These religions are safe from any change so they don't have to be aggressive, at least on home turf.

But, the new smaller religions and sects, they have to aggressively grow in order to survive. They need new 'paying members' like any club. But unlike a club you can leave these clubs usually take you for life and the majority of their functions is based on a kind of brainwashing-thing etc. making it very difficult to leave, more difficult then say, book of the month - club.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

But, the new smaller religions and sects, they have to aggressively grow in order to survive. They need new 'paying members' like any club. But unlike a club you can leave these clubs usually take you for life and the majority of their functions is based on a kind of brainwashing-thing etc. making it very difficult to leave, more difficult then say, book of the month - club.

Nevertheless it can be just as hard to leave an older, "established" tradition than a newer and smaller one. The social and familial pressure is often even greater because the religious practices and beliefs are far more likely to be intertwined with one's existing everyday life and experience, with one's closest and dearest relationships, and with how a person has always self-identified (and been identified by those closest to them) as an individual.

The difference to me is not how old or "mainstream" a spiritual tradition is, it's the amount of personal autonomy the practitioners are required to relinquish in order to be fully "acceptable" to those who are in authority within it and, just as important, the means by which those authorities obtain the support and compliance of their followers.

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

Nevertheless it can be just as hard to leave an older, "established" tradition than a newer and smaller one. The social and familial pressure is often even greater because the religious practices and beliefs are far more likely to be intertwined with one's existing everyday life and experience, with one's closest and dearest relationships, and with how a person has always self-identified (and been identified by those closest to them) as an individual.

The difference to me is not how old or "mainstream" a spiritual tradition is, it's the amount of personal autonomy the practitioners are required to relinquish in order to be fully "acceptable" to those who are in authority within it and, just as important, the means by which those authorities obtain the support and compliance of their followers.

Sure it's not easy to leave the older religions. I 'divorced' from the Finnish main religion which is the Finnish Lutheran church or something like that. Most Finns are baptised into it when they are babies so they kind of automatically belong to it, which is kinda sneaky. Members have to pay something called the "church tax" which goes from the salary automatically. There's stuff like burial and other things, the church owns the burial grounds so they're talking about putting prices for non-religious people to be buried etc.

I left the church in 2000 so I'm now celebrating my decade out of church.

[frau kaleun]

making it very difficult to leave, more difficult then say, book of the month club.

I was gonna mention - have you ever actually TRIED to get out of one of those things? Lol.

There's one that I joined ages ago - and stopped buying anything from a few years ago because, well, Amazon, right? I went to their web site, since pretty much everything except their regular mailings was done on-line by that time - and there was no way there to opt out of the thing.

I had to call a toll-free number listed on the site for customer service. Did that, and was told that in order to leave the club I would have to send something to them IN WRITING requesting it. Otherwise they would continue sending me monthly offers AND I would still have to go to the site each time to decline the 'featured selection.'

So I typed out a nice little letter requesting termination of my membership and sent it off to the address I'd been given.

I continued to get mailings and email from them, and continued to go on-line to decline their 'automatic' offers. After three months of this I called again and was told it takes 90 days to process a termination request. Fine, I think, it's now been 90 days. I continued to get mailings which I threw away. Then I got a book from them because I didn't go on-line to decline a selection that was featured in the mailing I threw in the trash. I refused acceptance of book and returned it unopened and called again. I was told that they would update my account to show I was no longer a member, and stop sending me stuff.

A couple weeks later I got yet another packet of offers from them. I opened it, just in case, and found a letter stating that they had processed my termination of membership, however as a 'courtesy' to me they would continue to send me regular offers and club notices just in case I still wanted to buy something from them or rejoin.

I think they kept sending me stuff about twice a month for another six months after that, until they finally gave up. I only stopped getting email from them when I changed my email address a year or so later.

Well yea, I know about those too. All these "only a small monthly payment" - type things I stay far away from.

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by OneToughHerring

Well yea, I know about those too. All these "only a small monthly payment" - type things I stay far away from.

Well that's the funny thing, they weren't getting any money from me and hadn't for years. There was never a fee to belong, only the need to decline (or by default accept) the purchase of one or two books every month. Once it was obvious to me I was never gonna buy from them again, doing that became a PITA as did all the mail/email from them. A waste of money on their part and of time on mine.

But apparently they don't take 'no thanks go away' very seriously. I've had breakups that were easier!

[tater]

I've been non-religious since before I was Confirmed—yeah, I lied to the priest, and everyone else. It was easier to be an atheist-agnostic on the sly at that point. Besides, by relatives gave me presents.

I tend to see no religion as any sillier than another.

Hitchens was asked in some debate to disprove god or something of the sort. He in reply asked what logical pattern the questioner used to disprove other religions besides their own, and he'd simply follow the same pattern for theirs.

My neighbor up the street was LDS. Nice family, and they were never pushy about it. Kids played together sometimes. Wife still is, but the husband died last year (and they moved). I went to the service, and the thing that struck me was that there was more "sales pitch" for the faith than I'd expect at a funeral. Was kinda creepy.