Younger voters not particularly scared of the word "socialism" - Page 2

mookiemookie · 04-20-10, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egan

Part of the reason, I suspect, is that it is bandied around so often by segments of the right who haven't even the vaguest notion of what socialism is and use it to attack anything they don't believe in that it has become incredibly devalued, Exactly like sections of the left and their childish and -virtually always utterly wrong use of the word 'Fascist.' Is it any wonder that when you cry wolf enough everybody stops listening? Words are too important to be used wrongly - especially when, like 'Socialist' and 'Fascist' they have such profound meanings and connotations.

Absolutely correct. Any idea that's anything left of hardcore Ayn Rand is labelled "SOSHULIZM!" by folks who have no understanding of the concept, save for the fact that it's an "-ism" and therefore must be bad.

AVGWarhawk · 04-20-10, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Absolutely correct. Any idea that's anything left of hardcore Ayn Rand is labelled "SOSHULIZM!" by folks who have no understanding of the concept, save for the fact that it's an "-ism" and therefore must be bad.

Over generalizing.

Freiwillige · 04-20-10, 01:45 PM

The American model was based on the exact opposite ideals of Socialism.

In fact if you follow American history the more free and independent we are as a nation the better we do. Socialism isn't worth the garbage bag I would use to haul it away with!

And as far as the youth. Of course they don't fear Socialism. They also lack a decent education here and what education they do get is filled with leftest idealism. The dumbing down of America has been going on for years and the news and media back when they weren't bought and sold used to report on it.

So you have all this left leaning propaganda bombarding our youth from Radio to MTV to Hollywood and you wonder why kids see Castro and Lenin as Cult hero's. you can follow that paper trail all the way back to McCarthy
no even Roosevelt.

Its no longer a war for social and economic beliefs, Its a war for the youth's mind.

This is as true and relevant today as it was yesterday.

AVGWarhawk · 04-20-10, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

The American model was based on the exact opposite ideals of Socialism.

In fact if you follow American history the more free and independent we are as a nation the better we do. Socialism isn't worth the garbage bag I would use to haul it away with!

And as far as the youth. Of course they don't fear Socialism. They also lack a decent education here and what education they do get is filled with leftest idealism. The dumbing down of America has been going on for years and the news and media back when they weren't bought and sold used to report on it.

So you have all this left leaning propaganda bombarding our youth from Radio to MTV to Hollywood and you wonder why kids see Castro and Lenin as Cult hero's. you can follow that paper trail all the way back to McCarthy
no even Roosevelt.

Its no longer a war for social and economic beliefs, Its a war for the youth's mind.

This is as true and relevant today as it was yesterday.

DarkFish · 04-20-10, 02:10 PM

really, what's so bad about socialism? (socialism, not communism, as I can see how communism is bad)

besides, compared to the Netherlands, socialism is almost non-existent in the US. Obama's got any socialist characteristics? Don't make me laugh.
Here even the liberal parties have got a similar policy as Obama wants.

krashkart · 04-20-10, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freiwillige

And as far as the youth. Of course they don't fear Socialism. They also lack a decent education here and what education they do get is filled with leftest idealism. The dumbing down of America has been going on for years and the news and media back when they weren't bought and sold used to report on it.

Why fear it? Wouldn't it be better for them to understand what it is and let them make up their own minds as to whether a step in that direction would be a good thing for their futures?

I do agree with your point about the "dumbing down of America". The networks give us more bias and pundit hapablap and not enough of the real meat of things. Thankfully we still have the freedom to think for ourselves.

AVGWarhawk · 04-20-10, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkFish

really, what's so bad about socialism? (socialism, not communism, as I can see how communism is bad)

besides, compared to the Netherlands, socialism is almost non-existent in the US. Obama's got any socialist characteristics? Don't make me laugh.
Here even the liberal parties have got a similar policy as Obama wants.

Hence my questions at the very beginning of this thread. One is saying Socialism and another is cold war rhetoric. Last I checked it was Communism that spurred the cold war. Left me itching my head. Socialism with cold war Communism rhetoric? Got me confused..... But I'm being told that youth understands Socialism and is not afraid of it.

Freiwillige · 04-20-10, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krashkart

Why fear it? Wouldn't it be better for them to understand what it is and let them make up their own minds as to whether a step in that direction would be a good thing for their futures?

I do agree with your point about the "dumbing down of America". The networks give us more bias and pundit hapablap and not enough of the real meat of things. Thankfully we still have the freedom to think for ourselves.

Exactly. Teach it absolutely, along with every other political system with out 'sspin and let them decide. For that's whats great about American's is that we at least at one time thought for our self's.

But I also believe that each state is sovereign and its not the fed's job to impose systems. So if one state's voters (California) wants socialism and another (Texas) wants Capitalism so let it be.

Ducimus · 04-20-10, 03:50 PM

Younger generation's grew up with no memory of the cold war, so why should they be afraid of the word "socialism"?

Cold war rhetoric is pulling the Union of Soviet Socialist Republic card. Socialism is assoicated with communision for those of us who have a memory of the cold war. For those who didn't grow up in the 80's or earlier, the word is probably meaningless. Just some nutjobs flying off the handle.

Méo · 04-20-10, 04:15 PM

Still amazed to see what's going on in your country...

tater · 04-20-10, 04:39 PM

Socialism is un-American—in the Founder's sense of the phrase. None of them, regardless of affiliation (even the Federalists) would have liked it. Much of what they wish is expressly unconstitutional. Being in favor of the constitution doesn't make you some sort of crazy radical, or anti-government. In fact, it makes you PRO government, since the Constitution IS our government.

Young people are for the most part pretty dumb, that's part of it.

Socialism might work for some places—particularly tiny countries. The problem that always arises is that it requires, strong, centralized control over most all aspects of everyone's life. This is always dangerous, since that gives those in power almost infinite tools of control. Large scale democide in the 20th century was almost the exclusive purview of socialist regimes—remember that there were only "communist" regimes in name, functionally, all socialists.

Again, it's not BECAUSE of socialism, but because the central control required for socialism is a necessary requirement for totalitarianism. There are (and were) no decentralized, totalitarian states (since decentralized and totalitarian are mutually exclusive).

Also, on the level of the average guy, they realize that it's against human nature. They also tend to envision themselves as being capable of succeeding enough that they'll be the victim of confiscatory taxes. Those content to never be successful are perhaps more likely to want to steal from others—legally.

In addition, people will always try to create free markets when markets are fettered. Always. Anything that is too highly taxed, or banned is available in a black market—everywhere on Earth. Proof that this is the natural state. Other economics exist only at gunpoint—free markets exist in spite of gunpoints.

Ducimus · 04-20-10, 05:08 PM

Personally, i think the tendency for the government to become stronger and more centralized started as a response to the merry band of ragheads that decided to park a couple airliners into the twin towers. It then flowered with W's copious use of Signing statements and strengthening of presidential power, continues on with Obama, and will probably keep on continuing so long as the terrorism continues to be, or be thought of, as a threat. The next decade is going to be mighty interesting.

BTW, politics sucks.

Platapus · 04-20-10, 05:27 PM

Perhaps because the word socialism has been bantered about for describing anything against some people's opinion, that the younger generation is simply numb to the over use/misuse of the word?

After a while no one listens to the politician/commentator who cries socialism.

Aramike · 04-20-10, 05:27 PM

That editorial you posted is drawing biased conclusions based upon faulty reasoning.

Quote:

Republican strategists see short-term advantages in the tea party movement’s passion. But if conservatives can’t wean themselves off of Cold-War-era rhetoric, they risk alienating an entire generation of young people.

Why? Really, why?

For one, studies have shown repeatedly that young people ultimately get older. Furthermore, and less in jest, studies have shown that, as they get older, people tend to move conservative.

But see, the writer's point is irritatingly self-serving, and has implied that the Cold War rhetoric of Communism is similar to the current rhetoric of Socialism. Communism was indeed more feared, as a result of the Cold War. Socialism doesn't carry the same "nuclear war" urgency.

Finally, I find this quote particularly hilarious:

Quote:

Naveed Easton, a 19-year-old Emerson student, said he thought the group was out of touch. “You can notice the shift in society over the past 30 years,’’ he said. “It’s just getting more and more open-minded, and some people are just very resistant to a progressive society. Especially when it comes to, like, ‘Oh, that’s a socialist program!’ ’’

Wait, so the writer found a young leftist, and then used this quote to justify the position that Tea Partiers are out of touch with youth? That's absurd reasoning.

It seems to me that a more correct interpretation would be that the Tea Party people are out of touch with LEFTISTS.

Zachstar · 04-20-10, 05:34 PM

Why on earth would the youth fear socialism when the tea party is filled with racist signs mentioning it. Its making the connection that anti-socialism is the jelly to racism's peanut butter in the realm of politics.

Yet again the republicans and tea party let themselves get defined by hate mongers who dominate news cycles and scare young people away from any thought of conservatism.

I wouldn't worry that young voters are going to vote in the commie party anytime soon. But the racism and dumbness is going to cost republicans political votes in 2010 if they don't get control over these parties.

04-20-10, 02:10 PM	#20
DarkFish Sea Lord Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Stinking drunk in Eindhoven, the Netherlands Posts: 1,844 Downloads: 28 Uploads: 0	really, what's so bad about socialism? (socialism, not communism, as I can see how communism is bad) besides, compared to the Netherlands, socialism is almost non-existent in the US. Obama's got any socialist characteristics? Don't make me laugh. Here even the liberal parties have got a similar policy as Obama wants. __________________

04-20-10, 05:27 PM	#28
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,397 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Perhaps because the word socialism has been bantered about for describing anything against some people's opinion, that the younger generation is simply numb to the over use/misuse of the word? After a while no one listens to the politician/commentator who cries socialism. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

04-20-10, 05:34 PM	#30
Zachstar Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 1,956 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Why on earth would the youth fear socialism when the tea party is filled with racist signs mentioning it. Its making the connection that anti-socialism is the jelly to racism's peanut butter in the realm of politics. Yet again the republicans and tea party let themselves get defined by hate mongers who dominate news cycles and scare young people away from any thought of conservatism. I wouldn't worry that young voters are going to vote in the commie party anytime soon. But the racism and dumbness is going to cost republicans political votes in 2010 if they don't get control over these parties. __________________

04-20-10, 01:45 PM	#18
Freiwillige The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Phx. Az Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	The American model was based on the exact opposite ideals of Socialism. In fact if you follow American history the more free and independent we are as a nation the better we do. Socialism isn't worth the garbage bag I would use to haul it away with! And as far as the youth. Of course they don't fear Socialism. They also lack a decent education here and what education they do get is filled with leftest idealism. The dumbing down of America has been going on for years and the news and media back when they weren't bought and sold used to report on it. So you have all this left leaning propaganda bombarding our youth from Radio to MTV to Hollywood and you wonder why kids see Castro and Lenin as Cult hero's. you can follow that paper trail all the way back to McCarthy no even Roosevelt. Its no longer a war for social and economic beliefs, Its a war for the youth's mind. This is as true and relevant today as it was yesterday.

04-20-10, 03:50 PM	#24
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Younger generation's grew up with no memory of the cold war, so why should they be afraid of the word "socialism"? Cold war rhetoric is pulling the Union of Soviet Socialist Republic card. Socialism is assoicated with communision for those of us who have a memory of the cold war. For those who didn't grow up in the 80's or earlier, the word is probably meaningless. Just some nutjobs flying off the handle.

04-20-10, 04:15 PM	#25
Méo Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Quebec City Posts: 1,153 Downloads: 258 Uploads: 0	Still amazed to see what's going on in your country...

04-20-10, 04:39 PM	#26
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Socialism is un-American—in the Founder's sense of the phrase. None of them, regardless of affiliation (even the Federalists) would have liked it. Much of what they wish is expressly unconstitutional. Being in favor of the constitution doesn't make you some sort of crazy radical, or anti-government. In fact, it makes you PRO government, since the Constitution IS our government. Young people are for the most part pretty dumb, that's part of it. Socialism might work for some places—particularly tiny countries. The problem that always arises is that it requires, strong, centralized control over most all aspects of everyone's life. This is always dangerous, since that gives those in power almost infinite tools of control. Large scale democide in the 20th century was almost the exclusive purview of socialist regimes—remember that there were only "communist" regimes in name, functionally, all socialists. Again, it's not BECAUSE of socialism, but because the central control required for socialism is a necessary requirement for totalitarianism. There are (and were) no decentralized, totalitarian states (since decentralized and totalitarian are mutually exclusive). Also, on the level of the average guy, they realize that it's against human nature. They also tend to envision themselves as being capable of succeeding enough that they'll be the victim of confiscatory taxes. Those content to never be successful are perhaps more likely to want to steal from others—legally. In addition, people will always try to create free markets when markets are fettered. Always. Anything that is too highly taxed, or banned is available in a black market—everywhere on Earth. Proof that this is the natural state. Other economics exist only at gunpoint—free markets exist in spite of gunpoints.

04-20-10, 05:08 PM	#27
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Personally, i think the tendency for the government to become stronger and more centralized started as a response to the merry band of ragheads that decided to park a couple airliners into the twin towers. It then flowered with W's copious use of Signing statements and strengthening of presidential power, continues on with Obama, and will probably keep on continuing so long as the terrorism continues to be, or be thought of, as a threat. The next decade is going to be mighty interesting. BTW, politics sucks.