Some SH4 Questions

Phantom II · 04-16-10, 01:00 AM

So, after owning the game for 3 years, I've finally decided to install it (along with UBoat Missions) and give it another go. On top of this I've also installed RFB.

First off, the crew management is an absolute piece of crap. I miss the idea of having a crew quarters to station crew members that weren't in use, so that when I tell someone to man the deck gun, instead of repeating "Yes Sir" 5 times, and not actually manning it as in SH4, it just took a bunch of guys out of your quarters and assigned them to your deck gun. And then there is the matter of your watch crew not actually coming off station when the boat submerges, leaving them vulnerable to depth charge attacks. Seriously, how did this get through the beta tests? They DID test it, right?

And then, all this crew management wouldn't be such a pain in the arse if it weren't for the crappy drag and drop. At least in SH3, you could select a compartment, and then right click on all the crew members you want to go to that compartment. How come they took it out?

And how come, when I switch engine speed to Flank, the XO responds with "Yes Sir, all ahead flank, Yes Sir" Freaking too many Yes Sirs, and heaven forbids that they are unable to comply, in which case they just keep repeating Yes Sir until they CAN comply. What the hell?

Also, I got a massive frame rate hit when I installed RFB, I understand that this is all due to the environment mods and stuff, is there any way to turn it off though, and just keep the realism upgrades? Failing that, is there anything else I can do to increase my performance?

[edit]Almost forgot, another thing, how come determining speed is such a massive pain in the butt? I seem to recall it being pretty straightforward in SH3, why change something that wasn't broken?[/edit]

Cheers in advance people

Phantom

RFB Team · 04-16-10, 01:26 AM

No, RFB is a one-shot deal. There's no real practical way to pull out the environmental upgrades without messing with the rest of the mod. See, the way the AI interacts with the player is interlinked with the environment mods that are a part of RFB.

As for the crew management stuff, that's why there are empty slots below decks for the watch crew. That's the only way to keep the watch crew from being unrealistically injured when the boat is submerged. It's explained in more detail in the manual.

Phantom II · 04-16-10, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFB Team

No, RFB is a one-shot deal. There's no real practical way to pull out the environmental upgrades without messing with the rest of the mod. See, the way the AI interacts with the player is interlinked with the environment mods that are a part of RFB.

As for the crew management stuff, that's why there are empty slots below decks for the watch crew. That's the only way to keep the watch crew from being unrealistically injured when the boat is submerged. It's explained in more detail in the manual.

Hmm okay, but isn't there an easier way to move your crew than having to drag and drop each individual crew member (All 15 of them) every time you go below?

Aaand, as far as range estimations go on your targets, how come its impossible to get your Sonarman to give you an accurate range estimation? I keep having to do it manually through the hydrophone (because I keep getting ridiculous ranges), I mean active sonar should effectively eliminate the need for the Stadimeter range estimation.

And after finally calculating the range, I keep getting stupid speed estimations as well. For example, in the torpedo tutorial, It keeps estimating the cruiser's speed to be around 6-7 knots, when in reality its closer to 11 knots. Does this mean I'm going to have to do each calculation manually on paper using trig, since it'll be far more accurate?

RFB Team · 04-16-10, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom II

Hmm okay, but isn't there an easier way to move your crew than having to drag and drop each individual crew member (All 15 of them) every time you go below?

Nope

Phantom II · 04-16-10, 03:06 AM

Can anyone explain the inconsistency I'm getting with range estimation? When I use the stadimeter in the tutorial I get the target at ~800yds, but when I ping it with sonar it gives me ~1400yds. Whats up with that? It just seems like my speed calculation is really low since the computer estimates it at ~6-7kts :/ Its really frustrating

Phantom II · 04-16-10, 06:36 AM

Gah this is pathetic. When I start a combat patrol on my career (using RFB), if I'm in Pearl and I go to the bridge, the game just CTDs

I'm going back to SH3, which is pretty sad because I love the Pacific Theatre of Operations and the Fleet Boats

Jan Kyster · 04-16-10, 06:57 AM

are you sure your RFB isn't messed up somehow?

And before quitting SH IV, you do know TMO includes some Fleet Boats too...

BillBam · 04-16-10, 08:17 AM

Why is it necessary to run a SuperMod? Why not just run stock with GFO and add some individual small mod to suit your taste. You can add RSRD for campaign layers or the natural sinking mod if you like that over quick explosive endings.

rmr1701 · 04-16-10, 08:25 AM

Chill out man, it's a GAME. Try it vanilla, try a different mod, take it for what it is, a game. I haven't had a sub sim since Silent Service on an Apple 2c and while it would be great if it looked like a movie all the time and my computer had the capabilities of a Kray super computer and the devs made a perfect piece of software and etc, etc, etc, etc, it's still a game and I'm having fun with it.

Phantom II · 04-16-10, 10:09 AM

I'm not complaining about RFB, I think its great. What I am annoyed about is the fact that there are still heaps of bugs in the base game, and none of them have been fixed despite the game having been out for 3 years now, and with the release of SH5 (which I hear is terrible) I doubt they'll ever fix them -_-

I tried going back to SH3, but 1024x768 stretched on a 1920x1080 monitor = not nice.

TH0R · 04-16-10, 10:25 AM

After reading your posts here I came to the following conclusions:

#1 - your RFB install is busted (judging by the many 'Sir yes Sir' you keep hearing)

#2 - the crew management in RFB is one of the best and most realistic. Yes it does need some hand input, but that is needed due to hard coded features.

In short - you don't need to drag the guys over every time you submerge. Dragging two guys (those from the active watch) will be enough to put them to man the dive planes in the control room - this was done because in stock you could either have crew on dive planes or no crew on them. RFB simulates it so that when on surface you don't see people manning the dive planes as it is - pointless.

As for the rest of the watch crew and Hogan's Alley - do this only when you're expecting to be DC-ed. It is like rigging for a DC attack. Adds to realism, at least for me.

Also - I do assume that you do use Battle Stations Command? This is one of the major advantages of SH4 over SH3.

#3 - if by moving the guys below manually you refer to the 'submersible watch crew' bug, then my advice to you is to stop alt-tabing out of the game while playing. This is a known bug which is present even in SH5 and can not be fixed. A lot of things can go wrong if you alt-tab out of the game while on patrol so it is best not to do it.

#4 - as for the stadimeter giving you different ranges than the sonar - that is how it is supposed to be. You need to get 5-6 range estimations by sonar and take a middle value to get the accurate range to target. Is is an approximation. Sonar isn't at all dead on accurate. As for the stadimeter - it was highly inaccurate in real life, the way we have it in the game is actually unreal. This comes from the wrong mast hight data in the real ship recognition manuals.

In short, you should do some more reading and inform your self before criticising the RFB mod. I know I've had the similar attitude in the beginning. In the end, I love RFB. It has by far the best Enviroment mod and ship sinking physics are notch above other supermods IMO. RFB isn't with out its flaws, but it is closest to my version of what simulation is. Maybe TMO will suit your needs better.

McHibbins · 04-16-10, 12:36 PM

Very good points THOR

Exactly my opinion

Jan Kyster · 04-16-10, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom II

...I tried going back to SH3, but 1024x768 stretched on a 1920x1080 monitor = not nice.

Just a sidenote... use the HiRes Fix in SH3

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1092

Ducimus · 04-16-10, 05:30 PM

Looking over the posts, i don't think he *really* wanted to play this game anyway. Maybe even borderline trolling. Meh.

Phantom II · 04-16-10, 06:44 PM

Are you kidding? I love Silent Hunter (I own retail copies of SH1, which I got on release, right thru to SH4, on top of that I own Steam copies of 3 and 4 as well), its just a shame that the great SH3 is starting to show its age with the whole low-resolution thing.

And yeah, it turns out my SH4 was a little bit bugged, it seems to be running better now. I did my first war patrol in SH4 last night with RFB and I even managed to sink a freighter, it was a real blast. Yes, the target aquisition is more difficult now, but at least its not bugged :/ Messing around with RFB caused me to have some inconsistent data on ship heights, which explains why it was damn near impossible to estimate ship speeds. But its all sorted now

Quote:

Originally Posted by TH0R

After reading your posts here I came to the following conclusions:

#1 - your RFB install is busted (judging by the many 'Sir yes Sir' you keep hearing)

Also - I do assume that you do use Battle Stations Command? This is one of the major advantages of SH4 over SH3.

#3 - if by moving the guys below manually you refer to the 'submersible watch crew' bug, then my advice to you is to stop alt-tabing out of the game while playing. This is a known bug which is present even in SH5 and can not be fixed. A lot of things can go wrong if you alt-tab out of the game while on patrol so it is best not to do it.

In short, you should do some more reading and inform your self before criticising the RFB mod. I know I've had the similar attitude in the beginning. In the end, I love RFB. It has by far the best Enviroment mod and ship sinking physics are notch above other supermods IMO. RFB isn't with out its flaws, but it is closest to my version of what simulation is. Maybe TMO will suit your needs better.

#1 Yep, it turns out that that was the case.

What does the Battlestation command do exactly? As far as I can tell it just 'activates' all your resting crew members.

#3 Same as #1

And just so we're clear here, my criticisms wasn't with RFB, I think its great, its more the base game that appears weaker in some respects to SH3 (I apologise if it seemed like I was bagging RFB).

On a slightly different topic: Has anyone been able to get SH3 to run on widescreen without the stretching? I've tried some of the different high-res fixes, but since the GUI and everything else (periscopes, binoculars) is all done in 1024, the improvements have been rather limited. I suppose if all else fails I could always whip out my old 17" 4:3 LCD

04-16-10, 03:06 AM	#5
Phantom II Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 139 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Can anyone explain the inconsistency I'm getting with range estimation? When I use the stadimeter in the tutorial I get the target at ~800yds, but when I ping it with sonar it gives me ~1400yds. Whats up with that? It just seems like my speed calculation is really low since the computer estimates it at ~6-7kts :/ Its really frustrating __________________

04-16-10, 06:36 AM	#6
Phantom II Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 139 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Gah this is pathetic. When I start a combat patrol on my career (using RFB), if I'm in Pearl and I go to the bridge, the game just CTDs I'm going back to SH3, which is pretty sad because I love the Pacific Theatre of Operations and the Fleet Boats __________________

04-16-10, 08:25 AM	#9
rmr1701 Watch Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Rowlett, TX Posts: 23 Downloads: 55 Uploads: 0	Chill out man, it's a GAME. Try it vanilla, try a different mod, take it for what it is, a game. I haven't had a sub sim since Silent Service on an Apple 2c and while it would be great if it looked like a movie all the time and my computer had the capabilities of a Kray super computer and the devs made a perfect piece of software and etc, etc, etc, etc, it's still a game and I'm having fun with it. __________________ "Any society that will give up a little freedom to gain security...shall gain neither and lose both"

04-16-10, 10:09 AM	#10
Phantom II Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 139 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	I'm not complaining about RFB, I think its great. What I am annoyed about is the fact that there are still heaps of bugs in the base game, and none of them have been fixed despite the game having been out for 3 years now, and with the release of SH5 (which I hear is terrible) I doubt they'll ever fix them -_- I tried going back to SH3, but 1024x768 stretched on a 1920x1080 monitor = not nice. __________________

04-16-10, 10:25 AM	#11
TH0R XO Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 420 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	After reading your posts here I came to the following conclusions: #1 - your RFB install is busted (judging by the many 'Sir yes Sir' you keep hearing) #2 - the crew management in RFB is one of the best and most realistic. Yes it does need some hand input, but that is needed due to hard coded features. In short - you don't need to drag the guys over every time you submerge. Dragging two guys (those from the active watch) will be enough to put them to man the dive planes in the control room - this was done because in stock you could either have crew on dive planes or no crew on them. RFB simulates it so that when on surface you don't see people manning the dive planes as it is - pointless. As for the rest of the watch crew and Hogan's Alley - do this only when you're expecting to be DC-ed. It is like rigging for a DC attack. Adds to realism, at least for me. Also - I do assume that you do use Battle Stations Command? This is one of the major advantages of SH4 over SH3. #3 - if by moving the guys below manually you refer to the 'submersible watch crew' bug, then my advice to you is to stop alt-tabing out of the game while playing. This is a known bug which is present even in SH5 and can not be fixed. A lot of things can go wrong if you alt-tab out of the game while on patrol so it is best not to do it. #4 - as for the stadimeter giving you different ranges than the sonar - that is how it is supposed to be. You need to get 5-6 range estimations by sonar and take a middle value to get the accurate range to target. Is is an approximation. Sonar isn't at all dead on accurate. As for the stadimeter - it was highly inaccurate in real life, the way we have it in the game is actually unreal. This comes from the wrong mast hight data in the real ship recognition manuals. In short, you should do some more reading and inform your self before criticising the RFB mod. I know I've had the similar attitude in the beginning. In the end, I love RFB. It has by far the best Enviroment mod and ship sinking physics are notch above other supermods IMO. RFB isn't with out its flaws, but it is closest to my version of what simulation is. Maybe TMO will suit your needs better. __________________ *My IL2 stuff:* LEVEL BOMBING MANUAL v2.0 \| 'MUSTANG' Last edited by TH0R; 04-16-10 at 02:56 PM. Reason: typos

04-16-10, 01:00 AM	#1
Phantom II Electrician's Mate Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 139 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Some SH4 Questions So, after owning the game for 3 years, I've finally decided to install it (along with UBoat Missions) and give it another go. On top of this I've also installed RFB. First off, the crew management is an absolute piece of crap. I miss the idea of having a crew quarters to station crew members that weren't in use, so that when I tell someone to man the deck gun, instead of repeating "Yes Sir" 5 times, and not actually manning it as in SH4, it just took a bunch of guys out of your quarters and assigned them to your deck gun. And then there is the matter of your watch crew not actually coming off station when the boat submerges, leaving them vulnerable to depth charge attacks. Seriously, how did this get through the beta tests? They DID test it, right? And then, all this crew management wouldn't be such a pain in the arse if it weren't for the crappy drag and drop. At least in SH3, you could select a compartment, and then right click on all the crew members you want to go to that compartment. How come they took it out? And how come, when I switch engine speed to Flank, the XO responds with "Yes Sir, all ahead flank, Yes Sir" Freaking too many Yes Sirs, and heaven forbids that they are unable to comply, in which case they just keep repeating Yes Sir until they CAN comply. What the hell? Also, I got a massive frame rate hit when I installed RFB, I understand that this is all due to the environment mods and stuff, is there any way to turn it off though, and just keep the realism upgrades? Failing that, is there anything else I can do to increase my performance? [edit]Almost forgot, another thing, how come determining speed is such a massive pain in the butt? I seem to recall it being pretty straightforward in SH3, why change something that wasn't broken?[/edit] Cheers in advance people Phantom __________________ Last edited by Phantom II; 04-16-10 at 01:26 AM.

04-16-10, 01:26 AM	#2
RFB Team SH4 Mod Team Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 165 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	No, RFB is a one-shot deal. There's no real practical way to pull out the environmental upgrades without messing with the rest of the mod. See, the way the AI interacts with the player is interlinked with the environment mods that are a part of RFB. As for the crew management stuff, that's why there are empty slots below decks for the watch crew. That's the only way to keep the watch crew from being unrealistically injured when the boat is submerged. It's explained in more detail in the manual. __________________ Thanks for everyone's encouragement and support. The RFB team is an open group and our work is open to anyone. Although we have a separate forum for development and testing, it is not a private forum, so you can drop in and see what's going on or contribute. The forum is open to other developers that need a place to exchange ideas too. http://forum.kickinbak.com/index.php...647a9120c08614

04-16-10, 06:57 AM	#7
Jan Kyster Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,151 Downloads: 152 Uploads: 0	are you sure your RFB isn't messed up somehow? And before quitting SH IV, you do know TMO includes some Fleet Boats too...

04-16-10, 08:17 AM	#8
BillBam Watch Officer Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Yuba/Sutter, CA Posts: 347 Downloads: 171 Uploads: 0	Why is it necessary to run a SuperMod? Why not just run stock with GFO and add some individual small mod to suit your taste. You can add RSRD for campaign layers or the natural sinking mod if you like that over quick explosive endings.

04-16-10, 12:36 PM	#12
McHibbins Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Good old Germany Posts: 739 Downloads: 80 Uploads: 0	Very good points THOR Exactly my opinion __________________

04-16-10, 05:30 PM	#14
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Looking over the posts, i don't think he really wanted to play this game anyway. Maybe even borderline trolling. Meh.