Kaczynski >possibly< responsible for the crash

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

You made one of your favourite mistakes in English again by translating the German eventuell with eventually. Eventually means something like "finally" while eventuell means "maybe, perhaps".

I become so sorry, promised!

Serious, I never knew that. Thanks. Maybe a mod can replace the misleading word in the headline with "possibly". the title sounds really bad and misleading, like an attack.

[kranz]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The relatives of the other victims onboard might want to ask some angry questions.

I doubt they would. I bet they are more tactful than you.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

There must be some really serious ulterior motive for this to be persued after being asked in the plane crash topic to drop it till after the corpses were at least slightly cold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessi...lsive_disorder

and my comment on him in the previous thread, btw thx for infractions Xabba.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Maybe a mod can replace the misleading word in the headline with "possibly". the title sounds really bad and misleading, like an attack.

Oh maybe not. Let the proofs of your ignorance remain unchanged.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by kranz

I doubt they would. I bet they are more tactful than you.

Yeah, cover it up.

Havin dealt with victims professionally in my past, I must tell you that for victims and their relatives it is not so much a question of tact, but a question on uncertainty which to end by getting answers is something they find relief over. You - only seem to be about a personal cult, at the cost of ignoring such possibilities of relief for the relatives. And that is very selfish of you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessi...lsive_disorder

Talking about that tact you just mentioned.

and my comment on him in the previous thread,

I forgot whether it was you or somebody else calling me names and calling me a swine there.

Oh maybe not. Let the proofs of your ignorance remain unchanged.

Yeah, keep on pumping oil into the fire, by leaving that headline in an unintended, potentially flamatory state that I did not wish to express that way, but did by lacking knowledge only. That'S what you really are after, right? A rumble?

Unfortunatley, this is not the first opportunity I recall where you mistake name calling with argument and personal attacks with posting.



A principal thing, adressing the mods:

do not warn me over anything here. In the other thread, as well as here, I was absolutely modest in stating what I said, and I payed respect to the tragic dimension and the human loss three times. But Kranz thinks he has to defend a leader status of Kaczynski - the only figure in this that I do criticise and that many people here have criticed in the past years - that seems to be completely ignorrant of the shadow sides of the man. He raised the temperature needlessly that way, encouraging others in the other thread to follow that example. I got called a swine, an ignorrant, a Nazi, and now a mentally defective, with no reaction by any mod. The original comment by me was between me and Schroeder - and it was harmless, since we both wished, expressed and agreed in that hopefully the political ties between Germany and Poland now would improve again. And over that Kranz blew up. But it is a historic fact that there is a record of the Polish right, which is not a microscopic faction only, but has one third and more of the population as sympathisers, to raise Polish revanchism against Germany and to link the current Germany and it'S government with the Third Reich and the person of Adolf Hitler. This is also an aspect of Kaczynski.

This was mentioned by me in a moderate, short comment, and I refuse to accept any criticism over that. What has been sent back in hatefilled reaction by two or three figures immediately starting to fire verbal offences, is not acceptable, no matter the mourning in Poland, and I wonder why it is accepted on this board when the forum rules speak out against it so very clearly. I got three mails yesterday from people telling me all the same: that they tend to agree with what I said, that they find it bad that the namecalling that came back in reply was accepted without warning by the mod, and this morning I see that both my comment and the vitriol in reply was deleted, as if the one was of the same severity than the other. Against this relativisation I file my protest. Cautioning the personal insults, and if desired: separating the thread would have been the right thing to do.

If I would say that America is a nation of evil, that Americans (in general) are racist KKK-members and there is a trend in America for reestablishing slavery, all the wolve pack immediately would go after me and call death! and torture!. But when germany gets constantly pointed at as being a Nazi country, and the people and our leaders being racists and reincarnations of Hitler - then we Germans time and again are expected to just swallow that, to behave as if nothing has happened, and to just show a kind smile. OTH gets away with it. Tribesman gets away with it when calling me perosnally like that. Omne or two guys yesterday got away with it. In the past years where this happened so often, I recall only one or two situations where a Neal stepped in. After all it is just the stupid Germans getting attacked, and the Germans are good for three things only: to be called Nazis, to shut up, and to pay. Not to mention Hollywood...

The news I report in this thread, bases on information from Polish and Russian military sources, as i already said. Take that into account before anyone again dares to throw dirt at me for "not respecting the dead". I briefly checked healdines in the few english russian and Poish newspapers I have lionked, and all of them are already far ahead in speculating and asking questions about the causes. I payed tribute to the dead THREE TIMES in the other thread, in three different posts, but I refuse to pay any special tribute to Kaczynski for being a president, and I am not becoming more sentimental over this tragedy than I would become about a bus accident in a suburb of Casablanca. Let's face it, if it would have been a figure like Hugo Chavez gotten killed in an accident, nobody here would think about piety and relatives, but the air would bristle with jokes and ironic comments, and references to what a jester that guys was. I never claimed to be a holy saint being in emphatic contact with all the rest of mankind. Several thousand people died yesterday worldwide, and all of them are as close or as distant to me than those sitting in that plane. So do not expect me to cry crocodile tears. I have cried, on several occaisons - over the fate of people with whom I had any sort of relation, personally or professionally, or that I loved and knew.



Now, post in this thread if you have something constructive to say on its topic, or stay away. Personal insults are not wanted here, and I will not just swallow them again like yesterday. when the French airbus crashed in the Atlantic last year, there was a thread about possible causes, too, including pilot or maintenance errors. Nobody took offence from that. There is no reason to take offence now, just because this time it is a Polish plane.

[heartc]

LOL, ridiculous. The irony is that with all your whining and revanchism when the bodies were not even recovered yet, you kinda proved Kaczyński right after all, at least as far as you are concerned.

What is funny is that with your recently discovered skepticism regarding the institution that is the EU, one would have thought you should have some sympathy with what this man's point was all about. For Poland, what started with WWII didn't end in 1945. It ended only relatively recently in ~1990, so they will get concerned when they see the forming of another bureaucrat apparatus that loves to rule and puts the idea of freedom not at the very top of its priority list. Also, with the pragmatically good relationship between Germany and Russia, while the latter has no qualms about bombing a neighboring democracy even in the 21st century, I don't find it too surprising when some alarm bells are ringing in Poland. Wanting to build a pipeline from Russia that bypasses a fellow EU member state didn't help either in building up the confidence.

But instead of thinking about this, you play the drama queen ala "I don't wear a mustache, how dare you!" and would have loved to put Kaczyński on your ignore list, not realizing that this was exactly his point. All you did is reap the lines given to you by our own biased and EU worshipping media and run with it. Your god damn Spiegel has lots of (frm. Chancellor) Schröder like Russia lovers and former commies in their staff, who - in addition - remember very well that Poland was one of those who spoiled the party in 1989/90. Who allowed Poland to speak up? How dare they have their own opinion!

If the EU is meant to stay on a path of freedom and democracy, it would do well to listen to her smaller member states instead of listening to Russia.

[kranz]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I forgot whether it was you or somebody else calling me names and calling me a swine there.

not me, besides that would be violation of PETA's movement regulations.

Originally Posted by Skybird

A principal thing, adressing the mods:

double "d", mkay?

Originally Posted by Skybird

Against this relativisation I file my protest.

It reminds me the scene from Stalingrad(1993)Soon after the arrival at the train station in Stalingrad:
-Ich muss gegen das Verhalten Ihrer Leute protestieren.
-Dann protestieren Sie. Am besten beim Führer selbst

Everybody's free to express opinion. There were ppl who posted in that previous thread about planes, possible pilot mistakes etc but you just had to came and CTRL+C/CTRL+V your old stuff which can be found in plenty of threads dealing with Poland. And actually the logic behind posting this was(only in my opinion)none so I commented on that. And don't try to play a victim now coz most of political threads in which u post end like that. You write cr... , ppl respond to that and u feel deeply offended. and I'm not trying to defend anyone-every thread has its name/topic. You could easily start your own and write there. When you off-top you get what you deserved. What is more mods-in that case Xabbarus- reacted coz I got infractions(and i stated it b4)so stop crying.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Now, post in this thread if you have something constructive to say on its topic, or stay away. Personal insults are not wanted here, and I will not just swallow them again like yesterday. when the French airbus crashed in the Atlantic last year, there was a thread about possible causes, too, including pilot or maintenance errors. Nobody took offence from that. There is no reason to take offence now, just because this time it is a Polish plane.

i almost peed in my pants. You are no one to tell where I can post, especially after u said:"??"oh, i've just noticed that a few posts have been deleted.ok so nvm. he just said he will stay back from that thread but after all he could not restrain himself and posted a few more.
In a nutshell: when u go off topic don;t expect ppl to remain indifferent.

[iambecomelife]

"But when germany gets constantly pointed at as being a Nazi country, and the people and our leaders being racists and reincarnations of Hitler - then we Germans time and again are expected to just swallow that, to behave as if nothing has happened, and to just show a kind smile. OTH gets away with it. "

Lol - the whingeing German nationalist cometh. Note the same sense of perpetual "stabbed in the back" victimhood we've seen since, oh, 1919. Ah well - if I only had certain forum poster's comments to go by, I would really hate Germany and all its people with a passion. Thankfully,

A) I wasn't brought up that way, and

B) I've met many humane, compassionate Germans at work, school, & other locations in person. As even Daniel Goldhagen pointed out, judging all modern-day Germans based on some Germans' actions in the past is pointless and stupid. The kind of thinking we'd expect from certain slimeballs on this forum, but not from civilized human beings.

A principal thing, adressing the mods:

do not warn me over anything here.

Isn't it funny how in one part someone can talk about forum rules yet then demand their post cannot be looked at in regards to mods following forum rules.

This was mentioned by me in a moderate, short comment, and I refuse to accept any criticism over that.

What one person considers moderate or short is irrelevant, since the issue was the timing and the nature of the comments. Though mainly the timing, which was then made worse by going off on it all over again.
Refusal to accept criticism is a sign that he doesn't get it.

What is funny is that with your recently discovered skepticism regarding the institution that is the EU, one would have thought you should have some sympathy with what this man's point was all about.

I am afraid you will find lots of examples of his views being called crazy....when its Sky talking about other people that hold the views he himself holds.

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by kranz

Oh maybe not. Let the proofs of your ignorance remain unchanged.

Zing! Nail + HEAD!

[XabbaRus]

OK this topic will be closed unless the muck slinging back and forth stops.

I understand the Poles are upset however given there is a lot of speculation on the reasons for the crash, Skybirds position is one of them that is doing the rounds on the net.

I don't believe in being disrespctful to the dead but all of you need to discuss it maturely.

Final warning.

[Skybird]

@Xabba,
thanks for changing the headline.

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by Skybird

@Xabba,
thanks for changing the headline.

Yeah. Comes in handy when you're a sack of garbage too yellow to stand by your original words. Doesn't it?

[kranz]

Originally Posted by XabbaRus

OK this topic will be closed unless the muck slinging back and forth stops.

I understand the Poles are upset however given there is a lot of speculation on the reasons for the crash, Skybirds position is one of them that is doing the rounds on the net.

I don't believe in being disrespctful to the dead but all of you need to discuss it maturely.

Final warning.

actually it's not about this thread, coz Skybird could have made a separate one for w/e he wanted but he had to post in the previous.