Do we really want to ruin this forum with constant DRM and SH5 trashing?

[janh]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

They'd change the DRM system and either release complete games, or blank discs.

Would the blank disc be my property, or only licensed for temporary use?? Can I used it for data storage, or do I thereby surrender the ownership of my property???

[Rockin Robbins]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

It's a game. A game.

Yes, it's a game that denies the servicemen it pretends to honor the right to play the game. Yes, it's a game that denies us our fair use rights enjoyed for every other copyrighted product. Yes, it's a game that uses the word "service" to mean "bend over." Yes it's a game that we will have to post over and over that it is a game that doesn't deserve to be bought or modded, produced by a company that doesn't deserve to live.

If we don't continue to post to that effect, our voices will be buried by all the excuse makers who believe that we who are offended by Ubi's contempt for its most loyal Customers have no standing simply because we haven't drunk the kool-aid and bought this insult of a game.

I have never killed anyone but I'm against murder. I don't own the game and I'll be happy to tell people why. My opinion is valid and I won't be shouted down, ESPECIALLY by those who speciously insist that ownership is necessary in order to have an informed opinion.

When a game is used to rewrite copyright law and deny fair use rights to the purchasers, we're talking about lots more than a game. It must end here or it will spread.

We must kill it before it multiplies. Nobody should EVER come to Subsim and be able to conclude that SH5 is a game worth purchase consideration until UBI removes the DRM and resale prohibition. Until then whether the game is fun or not is not a valid consideration, any more than whether poison-laced kool-aid tastes good. Who cares if it tastes good? You can't drink it.

[NefariousKoel]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

When a game is used to rewrite copyright law and deny fair use rights to the purchasers, we're talking about lots more than a game. It must end here or it will spread.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Yes, it's a game that denies the servicemen it pretends to honor the right to play the game. Yes, it's a game that denies us our fair use rights enjoyed for every other copyrighted product. Yes, it's a game that uses the word "service" to mean "bend over." Yes it's a game that we will have to post over and over that it is a game that doesn't deserve to be bought or modded, produced by a company that doesn't deserve to live.

If we don't continue to post to that effect, our voices will be buried by all the excuse makers who believe that we who are offended by Ubi's contempt for its most loyal Customers have no standing simply because we haven't drunk the kool-aid and bought this insult of a game.

I have never killed anyone but I'm against murder. I don't own the game and I'll be happy to tell people why. My opinion is valid and I won't be shouted down, ESPECIALLY by those who speciously insist that ownership is necessary in order to have an informed opinion.

When a game is used to rewrite copyright law and deny fair use rights to the purchasers, we're talking about lots more than a game. It must end here or it will spread.

We must kill it before it multiplies. Nobody should EVER come to Subsim and be able to conclude that SH5 is a game worth purchase consideration until UBI removes the DRM and resale prohibition. Until then whether the game is fun or not is not a valid consideration, any more than whether poison-laced kool-aid tastes good. Who cares if it tastes good? You can't drink it.

I don't disagree with your stance, I just disagree that the kool-aid is poison. Obviously, some have drank it and are still alive wanting more, and as I stated before, it is a Pandora's box now. I can't play it any longer as I don't like the gameplay. I don't care at all about resale, but I do care about improving the experience along historical and "realistic" lines which is where this game fails me. Rewrite copyright law? I work in a world where hundreds of thousands of dollars are spend on equipment, run by software the buyer does not own more than a use license. This is water under, and past the bridge now my friend. I'm just as sorry as you about it, but I choose to move on.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

the buyer does not own more than a use license.

I know, it has been said a thousand times, they still don't get it.

[Ducimus]

I'm sorry, but that keeps staring at me. I just can't get into hippie movments. lol

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

We must kill it before it multiplies. Nobody should EVER come to Subsim and be able to conclude that SH5 is a game worth purchase consideration until UBI removes the DRM and resale prohibition. Until then whether the game is fun or not is not a valid consideration, any more than whether poison-laced kool-aid tastes good. Who cares if it tastes good? You can't drink it.

And there folks is the problem.

Whether it is a good game or not - whilst the DRM is present the haters will go on hating. They will go on hijacking threads and adding more hate because...... The DRM is bad M'kay

*sigh*

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Yes, it's a game that denies the servicemen it pretends to honor the right to play the game.

SH5 hates the troops!

Yes, it's a game that denies us our fair use rights enjoyed for every other copyrighted product.

So what? It's a computer game.

If we don't continue to post to that effect, our voices will be buried by all the excuse makers who believe that we who are offended by Ubi's contempt for its most loyal Customers have no standing simply because we haven't drunk the kool-aid and bought this insult of a game.

I tire of hearing this crap a thousand times a day. I don't care if you buy it or not. I really seriously don't. It makes absolutely zero difference to me what you do with your money. Why do people feel the need to tell me about it in 100 different threads? Do they go over to the Dangerous Waters forums and spam that forum with threads about why they don't play that game?

I have never killed anyone but I'm against murder. I don't own the game and I'll be happy to tell people why. My opinion is valid and I won't be shouted down, ESPECIALLY by those who speciously insist that ownership is necessary in order to have an informed opinion.

Just because your opinion is valid, doesn't mean you're not a jerk for spamming it all across as forum devoted to game owners to discuss the game they....you know....own.

When a game is used to rewrite copyright law and deny fair use rights to the purchasers, we're talking about lots more than a game. It must end here or it will spread.

Apologies to whomever said this first and if I paraphrase but, "Not buying SH5 does not make you the moral equivalent of Nelson Mandela."

Nobody should EVER come to Subsim and be able to conclude that SH5 is a game worth purchase consideration until UBI removes the DRM and resale prohibition.

BULLSH**. Your opinion is just that - YOUR OPINION. People should be able to come to a forum devoted to a game they like and discuss the game. They do not have to subscribe to your opinion to come to this forum. You're saying that every thread needs to have YOUR OPINION in it?

Until then whether the game is fun or not is not a valid consideration, any more than whether poison-laced kool-aid tastes good. Who cares if it tastes good? You can't drink it.

More BS...err...your opinion. It's not valid to you but that doesn't mean it's not valid to others. Forcing your opinion on others whether they like it or not just makes you a bully.

[dannygjk]

Curiosity killed the cat, and gave me a horrible flashback.

*Me, curious about link 'thyro' posted, *click*...

"NOOOOO!!"

*sobbing* Dammit thyro!! OMG that tune is running thru my head again, after I had pretty much forgotten it decades ago.

[robbo180265]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

SH5 hates the troops!

So what? It's a computer game.

I tire of hearing this crap a thousand times a day. I don't care if you buy it or not. I really seriously don't. It makes absolutely zero difference to me what you do with your money. Why do people feel the need to tell me about it in 100 different threads? Do they go over to the Dangerous Waters forums and spam that forum with threads about why they don't play that game?

Just because your opinion is valid, doesn't mean you're not a jerk for spamming it all across as forum devoted to game owners to discuss the game they....you know....own.

Apologies to whomever said this first and if I paraphrase but, "Not buying SH5 does not make you the moral equivalent of Nelson Mandela."

BULLSH**. Your opinion is just that - YOUR OPINION. People should be able to come to a forum devoted to a game they like and discuss the game. They do not have to subscribe to your opinion to come to this forum. You're saying that every thread needs to have YOUR OPINION in it?

More BS...err...your opinion. It's not valid to you but that doesn't mean it's not valid to others. Forcing your opinion on others whether they like it or not just makes you a bully.

Yet another good post Mookie.

[Zedi]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

...
I tire of hearing this crap a thousand times a day. I don't care if you buy it or not. I really seriously don't. It makes absolutely zero difference to me what you do with your money. Why do people feel the need to tell me about it in 100 different threads?
...

/signed



/offtopic: btw, WoW was not dumb, people made it so. The constant whining of 'zomg nerf this, nerf that' made it from a hardcore game to a casual/popular one. Well, at least the devs there are listening to their customers whishes.. and the kids wants casual games Still, with a mature guild and the right people, you can enjoy the game and not bother with the loud crowd.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

Just head to the engine room and tell the engine crew to make 8 knots. What fun! Never mind the fact that no sub captain ever did that in reality.

You do not have to go to the engine room to order 8 knots. You can do that from the UI available everywhere.

Unfortunately for those that are posting negative things about the game, it lessens the impact of their comments and damages their credibility among those that have played the game when they make claims about faults in the game that are not there. For those that have not played the game and are equally mis-informed this strengthens their belief in a faulty game, as another 'fact' has come to light. This only serves to divide the community further.

I think in this case it would be fair to say that there was another flavour of poisoned Kool-Aid going around on the forum that is equally as flavoursome to the ones that are drinking it and equally as foul as those that aren't.

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

My opinion is valid and I won't be shouted down, ESPECIALLY by those who speciously insist that ownership is necessary in order to have an informed opinion.

Ownership is not necessary, but a reliable source of information is necessary. Where did you get the information that you had to go to the engine room to change speed? I don't think it's reliable.

Unfortunately what was warned about at the very start - people complaining about the DRM repeatedly would eventually turn other people who were against the DRM into defenders of it, simply because they are sick of hearing the same thing - has already started to happen.

If people are serious about getting the DRM removed, then I'd ask if they had at least written to Ubisoft, or a newspaper, or tried to organise something other than posting repeatedly on a website that isn't even related to Ubisoft. If they haven't, then I suggest they do, because from what I can see, Ubisoft don't seem to mind that you are posting here.

[IanC]

The "It's just a game" reason for not getting upset, doesn't sound quite right to me.
Just a broken game... just a broken lamp... just a broken DVD player... you only spent 60$... you only spent 10$... When is somebody allowed to feel jipped exactly? Heck SUBSIM.COM is all about games, so don't tell us it's just a game.
Now a valid complaint would be if the same person, made the same complaints over and over and over again. That is clearly spamming, but I don't see it being the case here. I think you have the same people talking about different problems or many different people talking about the same problem, which would give the impression or illusion of spamming, but in reality everybody is just voicing their opinions on the matter. It just seems like spamming because the negative comments are so numerous, again I would blame the game for that, not the posters.
Unless some of you are saying voice a negative opinion once and then shut up, well in that case I can't agree.
This is a forum about subsims, if SH5 sucks, this is the place the flaws will be pointed out, warts and all.

[Feuer Frei!]

Originally Posted by IanC

Now a valid complaint would be if the same person, made the same complaints over and over and over again. That is clearly spamming, but I don't see it being the case here. I think you have the same people talking about different problems or many different people talking about the same problem, which would give the impression or illusion of spamming, but in reality everybody is just voicing their opinions on the matter.

Not necessarily the same person, although the subject matter is always the same, or falls back onto the same ground over and over again.
That is not an illusion, let me assure you of that.
And no-one is saying that people shouldn't voice their opinions, letalone their concerns.
The "it's just a game" mentality/opinion is actually quiet simple and easy to understand:
Life goes on, don't take it so seriously! There are more important things in life to stress about than a PC Game.

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Feuer Frei!

Not necessarily the same person, although the subject matter is always the same, or falls back onto the same ground over and over again.
That is not an illusion, let me assure you of that.

That will happen in forums. Like it or not people don't do enough reading and will post something that was said already. Heck, go to the SH3 forum and people are asking the same questions that were asked since 2005. Or just last week here, we had three threads asking about the gramophone. It's not deliberate spamming or trolling, hence the illusion I was referring to.