Collateral Murder (merged)

[Freiwillige]

I agree

I can see the accident happening from the beginning but what happened after the initial burst was just horrific. I mean they broke up the perceived threat, Why keep killing???!!! And then to randomly fire into a van stopping to help!

They weren't grabbing bodies or Guns they were helping the one guy still moving.

The words of the pilots showed the disregard for human life...How would they feel if it was their family's down there and it was an Iraqi helicopter slaughtering their children and brothers? I think givin the evidance those guys should be ejected from the military at the very least! Bad judgments like that feed hatred of us.

Now I am far from a tree hugging hippy but our Country is getting further and further off track.

Ron Paul 2012!

[Skybird]

"Krieg vertiert." (Egon Bahr)

WikiLeaks, who published that video after Reuters was driven away by the Pentagon when they demanded release of the material on basis of the freedom of information act ( http://www.collateralmurder.com/ ), said that they prepare another video anytime soon, showing the intentional killing of civilians by soldiers.

I repeat this, since I mentioned the same incident in the other thread about WikiLeaks.

Originally Posted by WikiLeak

5th April 2010 10:44 EST WikiLeaks has released a classified US military video depicting the indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad -- including two Reuters news staff.

Reuters has been trying to obtain the video through the Freedom of Information Act, without success since the time of the attack. The video, shot from an Apache helicopter gun-site, clearly shows the unprovoked slaying of a wounded Reuters employee and his rescuers. Two young children involved in the rescue were also seriously wounded.

The military did not reveal how the Reuters staff were killed, and stated that they did not know how the children were injured.

After demands by Reuters, the incident was investigated and the U.S. military concluded that the actions of the soldiers were in accordance with the law of armed conflict and its own "Rules of Engagement".

Consequently, WikiLeaks has released the classified Rules of Engagement for 2006, 2007 and 2008, revealing these rules before, during, and after the killings.

WikiLeaks has released both the original 38 minutes video and a shorter version with an initial analysis. Subtitles have been added to both versions from the radio transmissions.

WikiLeaks obtained this video as well as supporting documents from a number of military whistleblowers. WikiLeaks goes to great lengths to verify the authenticity of the information it receives. We have analyzed the information about this incident from a variety of source material. We have spoken to witnesses and journalists directly involved in the incident.
WikiLeaks wants to ensure that all the leaked information it receives gets the attention it deserves. In this particular case, some of the people killed were journalists that were simply doing their jobs: putting their lives at risk in order to report on war. Iraq is a very dangerous place for journalists: from 2003- 2009, 139 journalists were killed while doing their work.

It is not only an issue of how war cripples the psyche of those participating in it. It also is about lowered standards for recruitment in order to copensate the fallen interest for joining the armed forces since the Iraq wear began. This fallen interest is both a conseqeunce of fallen wages (especially the air force suffers a shortage in qualified pilots who preferred to join civilian compnaies fpor getting better payment), and the ongoing war and the risk to be sent to Iraq. The fallen levels of character fitness and general social competence and education has been pointed out by US journalists repeatedly in the past 5 years.

The coverup by the pentagon is unexcusable, because this was no mistake being made, but an intentional act of murder.

The crews must face court martial for committing war crimes. I personally would line them up on the wall - last but not least as an examplary call to maintain discipline.

[Dowly]

Wow... if you watch the full video, you can hear towards the end where there's another engagement, the gunner is constantly (ok ok, twice) asking how to find some setting or why something's flashing in the HUD. Umm... training anyone?

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by Foxtrot

Since nobody is going to post it. Hence, I decided to take the lead



America. Land of the free. Home of the brave. Bringing freedom and peace through superior firepower.

Go back to sleep. Everything is fine.

Thanks for bringing this up.


To my recollection (from last viewing of the video) I only saw three instances of what might appear to be weapons, and the rest of those men appear to be very much unarmed. Still trying to figure out if the RPG was an RPG or a camera lens. I'll have another look at this.

At about 5:10-5:20, where Saaed tries to run for cover, the crosshairs make a wild jerk to the left while the chain gun fires. Four of those rounds appear to have hit nearly half a block away on the other side of the intersection. A line of rooftops above Saaed were pounded just a moment before.

Then there is the van. Did anyone else see weapons on those men helping Saaed? They were helping a possible enemy combatant, but they didn't appear to be carrying anything more harmful than a grown man who could barely manage to crawl.

Could it be possible, the area being in a Baghdad fraught with religious division, that the armed men were simply a local escort to protect the journalists? Enemy or not, there were too few militants present in that group to justify the kill.

***

Notice any difference with the crew emotion in this next clip? There are a couple of places toward the end where the crew are excited about well-placed shots, but they don't seem to lose their grip or stray off target.



***

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I personally would line them up on the wall - last but not least as an examplary call to maintain discipline.

Germans shooting Americans was tried in the last century. It didn't work out so well for the Germans.

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by August

Germans shooting Americans was tried in the last century. It didn't work out so well for the Germans.

HunterICX

[August]

Originally Posted by HunterICX

HunterICX

Well sorry to dissapoint you Capt Picard but where is your face palm for Skybird? The man just advocated the murder of my countrymen to teach a lesson to others. That doesn't rate?

[HunterICX]

Originally Posted by August

Well sorry to dissapoint you Capt Picard but where is your face palm for Skybird? The man just advocated the murder of my countrymen to teach a lesson to others. That doesn't rate?

So? should I take him serious that he wants to have them lined up and shot? I just Ignore...it aint his call so your countrymen are most likely still alive...(I would have liked to see them tossed out of the Army thought as they really have a lack of proffesionalism, but again it ain't my call)

anyway...
but what Skybird's comment has that to do with this:

Germans shooting Americans was tried in the last century. It didn't work out so well for the Germans.

I'm sorry that just doesn't make any bloody sense...just because he's German you base that comment on? What if he was a Swiss or (insert any other nation here)

HunterICX

[August]

Originally Posted by HunterICX

I'm sorry that just doesn't make any bloody sense...

Well ok then...

[Fader_Berg]

Originally Posted by August

Germans shooting Americans was tried in the last century. It didn't work out so well for the Germans.

We haven't seen any Nuremberg Trials against americans either... soldiers, presidents and/or generals alike.

This isn't about your countrymen. This is about soldiers that murder in cold blood. Iraqi, british or americans... It really doesn't matter.
It's also about idiots that try to justify this ****.

[Nicolas]

I didnt want to view this video, seems the media dont care anymore about sensibility and passed it on tv. this were real people. Since when nobody cares viewing 10 people killed like this?

[August]

Originally Posted by Fader_Berg

This is about soldiers that murder in cold blood. Iraqi, british or americans... It really doesn't matter.
It's also about idiots that try to justify this ****.

I guess then there is no real need for a trial since it seems you've already made up your mind as to their guilt.

[Skybird]

To make one thing clear, if it hasn't been that clear before.

The crews committing this intended murder of civilians were soldiers in an army that is at war, and the nation of this army claims to be at war. The rules of war apply. Shooting civilians without military need for me is a war crime, and war crimes committed by soldiers of a national army at war must be object of court martials. And for the intended murder of civilians by soldiers of the army that is at war, the court martial imo should come to a sentence of "standrechtliche Erschießung" (getting shot by firing squad).

The comments made by the crew to me clearly illustrate that they knew this was not a battle going on, and that they were in full knowledge that they were not aiming at enemy combatants. "The comment on bringing children to battle, in this case is pure cynism.

Not more, not less.

For upholding discipline and as an exemplary warning for all other trigger happy freaks eventually serving in the uniform: court martial, and firing squad.

[Fader_Berg]

Originally Posted by August

I guess then there is no real need for a trial since it seems you've already made up your mind as to their guilt.

Are you for real? I have eyes you know. I make a judgement of what I see. But in difference to you, and your "fellow countrymen" on the video, I'm not the judge and executioner. I'm ready to let a independent court to decide - whether they are doing it all wrong or not - despite my own thought about it.
But, as we all know, that's never gonna happen with american soldiers.

I'm just sick of it...

The rules of war apply. Shooting civilians without military need for me is a war crime, and war crimes committed by soldiers of a national army at war must be object of court martials.

I wish Skybird would make up his mind, one minute its laws of war are silly and we must just do what needs to be done to win, the next its OMG prosecute the war criminals.