SUBSIM Radio Room Forums



SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997

Go Back   SUBSIM Radio Room Forums > Silent Hunter 3 - 4 - 5 > Silent Hunter 5
Forget password? Reset here

View Poll Results: How does the OSP (-DRM) service affect the way you rate SHV?
+3: it is really the thing that makes SHV look awesome and helps over any issues of the game! 0 0%
+2: it added a lot of value to SHV and lets me forget about minor issues of the game. 0 0%
+1: it is a small bonus to SHV 0 0%
0: no influence, I just rate it by its quality 22 14.19%
-1: it's a small hassle, but not a big inconvenience 31 20.00%
-2: it's a big hassle, and makes me look at any issues of the game even more critical 28 18.06%
-3: it's the final "torpedo" to sink the game; with it, even the minor issues look pretty bad 74 47.74%
Voters: 155. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-05-10, 09:26 PM   #31
Der Teddy Bar
Blade Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,388
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kylania View Post
This. Though I have been unable to play the first two weekends, and I did lose a day of saves, but since the initial weekends the DRM has been quite unobtrusive, certainly not enough to explain the frothing of the anti-SH5 crowd any longer.
That is all great while you can play and I certainly do not wish you any issues in being able to play when you want/can, but... It does not matter how reliable the Ubisoft online authentication is, indirectly the always online requirement will stop people from playing at the times they want/can.

I have moved since the tale of woe below, but I am sure many people are experiencing the same issues I did and while career wise we do not have to move and our house we are building should have the same ADSL broadband that I currently have, there is no guarantee.
I live in Australia, 20 minutes outside Canberra, our national capital. But when it came to getting an internet connection that meant little. I had the choice of 1 ISP and the connection was wireless as the telephone lines were pair gain i.e. where the telco overloads the copper with services in lieu of actually installing adequate infrastructure which our national telco Telecom is infamous for.

Here I was having just arrived in our nations capital, all be it just outside, and I had to wait 7 weeks to get my internet connection.

7 weeks later all keen to surf the net and catch up on the world as I know it, but the very next day there is a slight issue. The internet is not available till 08.30 and this happens the next day and the next where the connection was only available starting from 07.30 to 09.00. Upon following this up with my ISP I find that the wireless towers do not have enough battery capacity to cope with the winter overcast days. This took 9 months to be rectified.

I was to find out that this was the least of my problems with this ISP. There were regular outages of 1-4 hours every 2-4 days and 4-12 hours every 2-3 weeks. The longest outage we had was 3 days. The network was so overloaded the 1500k connection would often be sub 400k.

As bad as this ISP was if it was not for this community oriented ISP I would have had to use a 56k dial service. Remember this is in Australia and a mere 20 minutes outside out national capital.

What of the 21 weeks (5.1 months) over 2.5 years I would not have been able to play because I was awaiting a new internet connection because we had to move due to work? This time does not count the extreme 7 weeks above!

Before dismissing peoples angst at UBI's DRM (which is not about stopping piracy but the 2nd hand market) consider that they may not be as fortunate as you and cannot play the games they purchased when ever they want/need.

Such as those "Australian gamers unable to play Settlers 7 due to DRM woes"

I doubt the anyone would accept this type of DRM on their books, even electronic or audio one?

If Ubi were selling books they would have the Public Library outlawed
Der Teddy Bar is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 02:24 AM   #32
HKLE
Bosun
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Linz, Austria
Posts: 61
Downloads: 90
Uploads: 0
Default Marketing disaster or future success ?

Hi folks

Just some comments on the general subject:

DRM killed my preorder before the publication of this game. Although I should not have the problems of our down under colleaques, I do not like the idea of having to pay for less quality and options in comparison to previous games - in the past, the standard for offline games simply was different, as you all know. So - the new concept might serve UBI, but at the time in March I did not see any advantage for us customers.

In the hindsight though, I might decide in a different way, if the quality of the product would have been ok.

But SH5 seems even to be worse or equal to SH2 in terms of gameplay (and this is the long time motivation factor for such a game - nothing is more boring than all the eyecandy after a few hours - with just a few freighter types and always the same dialoques with crew ...). Concerning the setup of options, I cannot choose different U-boat types (well - for the so called "role playing" concept of this game, one U-boat type may be enough), but what really is a show stopper for me, is the scripted and uniform campaign "system" - start only in 39, arcade style (and totally unrealistic) mission targets, no other options allowed.

This is something I vehemently argued against already back in the development stages of SH3 - at the time with success - so SH3 still is THE game for me (I do not mind the missing eye candy, if the game itself is ok).


UBI had other ideas with this game though. First - short playabilty seems to create better opportunities for addons (more U-boat types, another campaign, maybe another theater (again), missing items such more freighter types and so on). The - new type of - customer, UBI has in mind, seems to be of the short attention type - therefore the arcade approach. They can be milked better than the old crowd - get the 50 bucks fast and forget about it.

Apparently, the marketing concept was to get new customers while the old customer base certainly would buy EVERY new game, whatever quality it might be.

And I - as old customer - almost fell for this candy myself.

Another question for me is, why UBI obviously rushed this game to the market, when it was far from being complete. The main reason in my opinion was, that UBI wanted to test the new DRM scheme on a comparably small customer base - because it does not hurt so much, if something goes wrong.

So - the DRM discussion itself prevented me from buying a game, which I would have forgotten within a few months anyway - mainly because of poor gameplay and only a few rather boring options. (I still play SH3 and 4 a lot)

The campaign system - important as core to longer playabilty - is solidly in the hands of UBI and their uncertain promises. If the game does not create the ROI planned, bad luck for the existing customers. No further development. Even no promises to do so.

One of the main open items for UBI is the question, if this massive customer deception and the accompanying image loss does not fall back on future sales. I read an article, that at least at the moment, they had a very good sales success in markets, where there is traditionally a high piracy rate - like Russia. (I wonder, why Russian companies like 1C can live without such a DRM scheme ?). But this is now - and then ? I doubt, that the customers do not learn from such a lesson themselves.

Thanks to the DRM announcement, I did not spend my share on this massive customer betrayal. My personal conclusion of this lesson is, that I shall generally wait for some time, before buying a new game - no matter which publisher - and let the early buyer crowd have it.
HKLE is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 03:23 AM   #33
Corsair
Ace of the Deep
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Toulouse France
Posts: 1,140
Downloads: 51
Uploads: 0
Default

I can say the DRM did affect my perception of the game.
My gaming rig is not connected to internet, which means I did not buy the game and therefore I have no perception at all...
Still very happy playing SH3 (NYGM 3.3 and Living SH3 v5) and sometimes SH4 for a change (RFB + RSRD) so I probably will have a perception in a year or so when DRM is off, game 10 euros and modders have solved the tons of bugs... (Like previous versions )
__________________


NYGM 3.4A / Living SH3 V5.1 + SH3 Commander
Corsair is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 03:41 AM   #34
SloppyMk27
Mate
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 59
Downloads: 82
Uploads: 4
This is just my opinion -
If I buy a game that can be played single player and all the game content needed to play single player is on my machine from the store bought dvd, there should be no reason at all to require a fixed internet connection. I am willing to accept a one time activation process that requires internet, and updates can be posted on the SH5's website. I don't need the program to do that for me. I'll be willing to bet there's more than a ping and pong going between your machine and ubisoft's servers when you're playing sh5.
SloppyMk27 is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 03:43 AM   #35
alexradu89
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Romania
Posts: 259
Downloads: 94
Uploads: 0
Default

99 voters and no +1+2+3 votes Mwahahhahah! Take that Ubi!
alexradu89 is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 05:10 AM   #36
Bilge_Rat
Silent Hunter
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: standing watch...
Posts: 3,856
Downloads: 344
Uploads: 0
Default

I doubt very much you will find anyone who actually likes DRM.
__________________
Bilge_Rat is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 06:03 AM   #37
Kremmen
Torpedoman
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 116
Downloads: 170
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HKLE View Post



Apparently, the marketing concept was to get new customers while the old customer base certainly would buy EVERY new game, whatever quality it might be.

And I - as old customer - almost fell for this candy myself.

Funny,I had the same thought.Did they count on the fact that the hardcore would rejoice at a new SH and buy it regardless and see them as guaranteed sales,then made a game to lure in the casual players ?
Was the decision to end the game in '43 so that casual players would not get slaughtered every time they put to sea after then and block up the Ubi forums with cries of 'the escorts know where I am as soon as I try to attack and I can't shoot anything' or 'aircraft blow me up as soon as I leave port'
I was so looking forward to SH5,even cancelled my WoW account last year because I had the Atlantic waiting once again,but some of the design features in the game did not appeal to me and then when the DRuM surfaced,well that I couldn't bear.
I've seen it on the shelves and man have I come close,but alas,not this time old friend.Or maybe that should be 'not yet old friend...not yet',we'll see.


This is in no way intended to offend or insult people who have bought the game but merely to try and get a grip on Ubi's reasoning behind some of their decisions.
If you have the game and are enjoying it...more power to ya
__________________
Never be afraid to try something new.
Remember amateurs built the ark.....Professionals built the Titanic.

Kremmen is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 08:40 AM   #38
Adriatico
Grey Wolf
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Periscope depth
Posts: 860
Downloads: 119
Uploads: 0
Default

AC2 "resolved" DRM last weekend... as it was predictable:


It is too late for this poll... due to fact that most of DRM opposition members are not visiting this forum anymore... try voting in SH3 and SH4... or Flaming Cliffs 2.0 forum.
__________________


Last edited by Adriatico; 04-06-10 at 09:03 AM.
Adriatico is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 09:31 AM   #39
janh
Stinking drunk in Trinidad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 349
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat View Post
I doubt very much you will find anyone who actually likes DRM.
Probably not, but that doesn't mean that maybe some people wouldn't like the features OSP brings (savegame sync, etc). That was how Ubisoft tried to sell the complete "package" with DRM. But my question is still a bit bigger picture than that. Because it may be possible that you hate DRM, or love the OSP, and still just would rate the game as the game.

However, as it seems, I would conclude from this crude poll that Silent Hunter V is actually a much better game than we make it by harsh criticizm. Which is so harsh because the OSP-DRM does obviously not add any function/feature that any of the voters would have paid a penny for, but for 2/3 is anything between a small inconvenience to a problem.
It is sad, but maybe SHV is really worth much more than is now left of it. And maybe the developers really did a decent job with the new dynamic campaign, the RPG elements, wolfpacks etc, though some of them might have needed a couple more month to bring to fruition. But with the OSP binding, I would say it doesn't matter what they try to sell, the judgement is basically already predefined for 50% of the people...

Now, I would say this is an interesting poll.
__________________
Scientific facts are not determined by the opinion of the majority, nor by a democratic vote.
janh is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 09:49 AM   #40
Bilge_Rat
Silent Hunter
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: standing watch...
Posts: 3,856
Downloads: 344
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by janh View Post
... I would conclude from this crude poll that Silent Hunter V is actually a much better game than we make it by harsh criticizm....
That is what I and many other hardcore subsimmers have been saying for the past month. We would not be spending so much time on this game if we did not see and appreciate its potential. I am glad to see you are finally realizing the truth.
__________________
Bilge_Rat is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 10:14 AM   #41
danurve
The Old Man
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 1,481
Downloads: 22
Uploads: 3
Default

I would gladly pay the retail for this game, bugs and all for whatever minor percentage that is worth to help support the game / ubi's support for shv.
But untill drm is out of the picture they can pack sand.
__________________
danurve is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 11:34 AM   #42
severniae
Stowaway
 
Posts: n/a
Downloads:
Uploads:
Default

I was initially opposed to the whole thing. And when I first got the game my internet was being all crappy and I had lots of connection issues thus making the game difficult to play.

However, now my internet is fixed to be honest I can't say that I have a problem with the DRM. I don't use the synchronised saved games at all, so don't have any problems loading the game, and since the internet has been fixed I've not had a single connection interruption problem.

So whilst I'm not a big fan of the idea, it doesn't really affect my game play at all, so doesn't bother me any more.

To be perfectly honest I'm getting really...really fed up of all the moaners about SH5 and the DRM, if they don't like it, then fine, don't buy or play it, it doesn't bother me. Its a good game in my opinion, sure it has bugs, but then so did SH4 when it first came out. I seem to remember it only really felt finished post 1.4, and UBI do have a history of keeping up to date with the patches, I've not seen them abandon any game yet. So, so far, the OSP doesn't really bother my opinion at-all!
 
Old 04-06-10, 11:59 AM   #43
ddrgn
Korvettenkapitän
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 918
Downloads: 362
Uploads: 30
Default

Ship reflections on the water seen for miles bothers me more than DRM. Transparent waves bother me more than DRM. As a matter of fact there is a lot more concerns tha bother me than DRM. I never even notice it. The old men belly aching over and over about this are just getting tiresome. This is how PC games will be for now on, get used to it or buy yourself a console. Specifically to those with extremely high post counts complaining about DRM? Does that even make sense, you have over 20k posts? You did this all offline?
ddrgn is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 12:31 PM   #44
OakGroove
中国水兵
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 275
Downloads: 10
Uploads: 0
Default

"It" did not affect the way i rate the game. The state SH5 is in, its conceptional flaws - is already enough of an deterrant to me, at least for now. With "Uplay" added to the mix, a purchase is out of question.
__________________


The idea that a company with more negotiating power over its customers will cut them a better deal is just bizarre.

Mad Science spawns Evil Fiend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkTZTzsYoZs
OakGroove is offline  
Old 04-06-10, 12:37 PM   #45
Sailor Steve
Eternal Patrol
 
Sailor Steve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: High in the mountains of Utah
Posts: 50,369
Downloads: 745
Uploads: 249


Default

Don't bother to read all the threads? I ask this since the "20,000 posts" comment could only be aimed at me (the only other is Jimbuna, and he's never said a thing).

Okay, one piece at a time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddrgn View Post
Ship reflections on the water seen for miles bothers me more than DRM. Transparent waves bother me more than DRM. As a matter of fact there is a lot more concerns tha bother me than DRM. I never even notice it.
You wouldn't notice it if you couldn't play the game either.

Quote:
The old men belly aching over and over about this are just getting tiresome.
Now we play the 'old' card? You think I asked for this to happen?

Quote:
This is how PC games will be for now on, get used to it or buy yourself a console.
Why? And why is that an answer? If they drop the DRM will you still throw that at me? Honestly, why should it necessarily be that way?

Quote:
Specifically to those with extremely high post counts complaining about DRM? Does that even make sense, you have over 20k posts?
Go on, say it: "Sailor Steve, This Means You!" Who else fits that description? The funny part is, I've said a few times that I can't play because of it, but I've never gone into a bunch of other threads trashing those who do. I want to see the game fixed. In fact I've plainly said that I want to be a part of the fixing it. But they won't let me.

Quote:
You did this all offline?
I guess you never paid attention to the part where I mention that when barely had enough money to pay the rent and utilities, and ate by hitting the free food banks, the first thing to go was the internet connection, because, whether you realize it or not, it is a luxury. I "did all this" by going to the local library, which is where I am right now. Most of my posts were made during the year-and-a-half I was homeless, which I am again right now. Obviously I'm not playing anything these days, but I can still work on my Ship Names collection, because it's small enough to fit on my flash drive.

I just got my tax refund (yes, I do get work now and again). I now have a dilemma - buy a cheap laptop so I can get online anytime I want, and maybe even play SH3, or set it aside so I can attend this year's Subsim Meet. Guess which one wins? Why? Because I can get online at the library, I love the games but I love research more, and I can do that without the laptop, and mostly because I love meeting people I've talked to online, and that comes first.

So you can talk down to people who want to play the game but aren't netbabies, or can't get reception when they travel, or vacation in remote places (gee, I've said that all before, haven't I?), but you need to do one thing, and that's explain exactly why I should get used to "the way things will be from now on", and you really need to tell everybody why this is a good thing.

Just because some company feels the need to force the buyer to do things a certain way doesn't make it right. Do you disagree?
__________________
“Never do anything you can't take back.”
—Rocky Russo
Sailor Steve is offline  
Closed Thread


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1995- 2025 Subsim®
"Subsim" is a registered trademark, all rights reserved.