Duds... so many duds!

[TwistedFemur]

When they tested the MK14 during trials it had a 70% failure rate

Tests were carried out by COMSUBPAC's gunnery and torpedo officer, Art Taylor (ex-Haddock). Taylor, Swede Momsen, and others fired warshots from Muskallunge[37] into the cliffs of Kahoolawe, beginning 31 August. Their third test shot was a dud.[38] This revealed the firing pin had not been able to contact the detonator hard enough to fire the warhead.[38]
To avoid "shaking hands with St. Peter" (as Lockwood put it),[38] E.A. Johnson, USNR, supervised by Taylor, dropped dummy warheads filled with sand from a cherry picker from 90 feet (27 m). In 7 out of 10 of these trials, firing mechanisms bent, jammed, and failed with the high inertia of a straight-on hit (the prewar ideal).[39] A quick fix was to encourage "glancing" shots[40] (which cut the number of duds in half),[39] until a permanent solution could be found

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo

[Ian_L]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

"…The torpedo scandal of the U.S. submarine force in World War II was one of the worst in the history of any kind of warfare."

Does this mean that it never really gets solved all through the war? I should pick up some books on WWII subs. I think I'll go peruse the Subsim book review section... Thanks for the info, Ducimus.

Originally Posted by Laconic

Set the pistol to contact and shoot them on the lower speed setting; that should improve reliability.

Is it the same range at lower speed? I'll try the Mk10.

Originally Posted by TwistedFemur

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo

Thanks for the link!

Ian

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Ian_L

I should pick up some books on WWII subs.

You could start with this sticky thread on the subject. But personally, id skip all that boring 3rd hand reading, and go straight to a 45 minute documentary as a primer.

[Ian_L]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

You could start with this sticky thread on the subject. But personally, id skip all that boring 3rd hand reading, and go straight to a 45 minute documentary as a primer.

Thanks for these links (and obviously the extensive work you did on that sticky thread). I will get to the books though.

This is one of the only area of WWII that I haven't read on, so I'm overdue (+ a long train commute!).

Ian

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Ian_L

Does this mean that it never really gets solved all through the war? I should pick up some books on WWII subs. I think I'll go peruse the Subsim book review section... Thanks for the info, Ducimus.

Long story short:

• The deep-running problem was finally admitted to by BuOrd in August 1942, and fixes for this problem were issued to the fleet not long afterwards.
• Submarines under Lockwood's command began firing Mark 14's with the magnetic exploder (officially) deactivated in late June 1943. There never was a fix for getting the magnetic exploder to work properly.
• Mark 14s with a properly-functioning impact detonator first left for patrol at the very end of September 1943.

[Ian_L]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Where TMO and duds are concerned, Your best bet is to pay attention to the weather. If it's calm, use magnetic; if its rough, use impact. Just realize that in rough weather, your chances of a proper torpedo is very low.

How does the rough sea influence the magnetic detonator? Just because the target will move up and down, hence having a possibility that the torpedo-ship distance will be too great (not widthstanding the deep-running problem early war)?

Originally Posted by LukeFF

Long story short:

• The deep-running problem was finally admitted to by BuOrd in August 1942, and fixes for this problem were issued to the fleet not long afterwards.
• Submarines under Lockwood's command began firing Mark 14's with the magnetic exploder (officially) deactivated in late June 1943. There never was a fix for getting the magnetic exploder to work properly.
• Mark 14s with a properly-functioning impact detonator first left for patrol at the very end of September 1943.

Is this what is roughly modeled in TMO, or do we get pretty much the same duds ratio throughout the war?

Ian

[Ducimus]

>>How does the rough sea influence the magnetic detonator?

Wave disturbances. A lot of waves can confuse a magnetic influence detonator, and have it prematurely explode thinking its near a ship when it's not. This is modeled in game. In TMO the rougher the seas, the greater the chance of a premature explosion. The odds of a premature detonation in rough weather are much greater then the odds of getting a dud impact hit. In rough weather, take your chances with the impact pistol. It may be a dud, but at least it was able to get to the ship to have the chance to find out.