Massive Price Drop!

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

yes, most unfortunate, looks like SH5 will be the last subsim we see in a long time.

Ubisoft doesn't have a monopoly on the subsim genre.
Now what may happen is this : there will be no more AAA graphics intense subsims. But this is different from saying that the subsim genre is dead in the water.

Think about it, going from SH3 to SH 5 what has been acomplished ? More graphics yes of course. And then what else ? The real improvements are nowhere to be seen because Ubisoft never cared for in the first place.
And no what I'm thinking of can never be achieved by simply modding SH 5.

Cheer up, people are still playing CFS2 and Fs9. Subsimers will have to make do with what they have. Sh3, 4 and 5.

[alexradu89]

The more we wait, the cheaper SH5 will get + more patches/mods!

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by alexradu89

The more we wait, the cheaper SH5 will get + more patches/mods!

What concerns me is the possibility of the SH series coming to an end

Originally Posted by jimbuna

What concerns me is the possibility of the SH series coming to an end

This would be the best thing that can happen. That way, some other game producer company will make an "approach" on this area, and it will make some real submarine simulator, with other name, different than Silent Hunter. The possibility of a clean start, a clean start that Ubi is not capable anymore.
Sub Command made by Sonalysts was a submarine simulator, Ubi's Silent Hunter series is not. SH III and 4 had some simulator elements, SH5 have very few, so SH5 it's obvious not a submarine simulator. I really don't know why people are talking about SH5 as a submarine simulator, even Ubi does not see the game as a simulator, as you probably know that. But many of you really WANT to see it that way, the way that it isn't.

[Sonarman]

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak

Sub Command made by Sonalysts was a submarine simulator

As was Dangerous Waters, but I don't see Sonalysts breaking their neck to make another do you? And neither is any other game company. Why bother when you can make a cute puppy dog game with a third as many devs in a third of the time and sell ten times more copies?

And much as I admire DFTD and all other indie developments they are still along way from being comparable to the SH series. Only Jutland & Distant Guns are cohesive and complete enough to be on the same level and they are truly wargames rather than first person simulations.

The real problem is that companies like EA & Ubi (not the devs but the suits) have stopped listening to their customers and in the economic downturn are focussed on delivering "value" to their shareholders rather than quality product to their customers, big mistake.

Originally Posted by Sonarman

As was Dangerous Waters, but I don't see Sonalysts breaking their neck to make another do you? And neither is any other game company. Why bother when you can make a cute puppy dog game with a third as many devs in a third of the time and sell ten times more copies?

No, they won't make another one, but does not mean that there won't be another company interested to do this kind of product in the near future. For now, Ubi is the only one and as long we are supporting their crappy projects with our wallets like sheep, they have an unofficial monopoly. They made this joke called SH5 just to keep the market "busy", with that slot filled, don't you see? For nobody to try anything in that particular area, so called "niche", which is not so "niche", in fact. Only when the Ubi SH series will die somebody else will come in.

And DFTD is not developing the way it should mainly just because of our LACK of interest. Personally, I would be glad to pay money for their game, and not 50 Euros, but 100, even if it's open source now, just because it's a more healthy project, a cleaner one. Even if it's just in development stage for such a long time. I would like to have a submarine simulation game that I will be able to play for years, and one that should be playable.

[Sonarman]

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak

And DFTD is not developing the way it should just because of our LACK of interest.

I tend to agree I think in many ways the same thing happened to Enigma and now to PT-boats which as Timetraveller recently pointed out is incredibly open could be modded into something worthwhile. But again the companies concerned failed to listen to their customers and are paying the ultimate price.

What we are ending up with now are "toolkits" half finished games with large modding potential but whether they live or die is up to us, not the way it should be but sadly the way it is.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Sonarman

As was Dangerous Waters, but I don't see Sonalysts breaking their neck to make another do you? And neither is any other game company. Why bother when you can make a cute puppy dog game with a third as many devs in a third of the time and sell ten times more copies?

And much as I admire DFTD and all other indie developments they are still along way from being comparable to the SH series. Only Jutland & Distant Guns are cohesive and complete enough to be on the same level and they are truly wargames rather than first person simulations.

The real problem is that companies like EA & Ubi (not the devs but the suits) have stopped listening to their customers and in the economic downturn are focussed on delivering "value" to their shareholders rather than quality product to their customers, big mistake.

Agreed. Much as I like the SH series, I can't help feeling SH5 is the last of the line. If you examine SH5, its hard not to see that its an orphan at Ubisoft.

On the one hand, it contains many true sim improvements the community has wanted for a long time: full 3d interior, wolfpacks, U-tankers, enemy subs, better moddability, scripting, better mission editor. It has many under the hood tweaks: AI scripts, apparently better underwater sonar modelling, underwater drag, etc. All of these elements have the potential (with a lot of TLC) to turn SH5 into a great sub sim.

On the other hand, it contains a crew management/RPG model which appears to have been tacked on and obviously does not belong in a subsim.

You can sense a war between the people at Ubisoft who really want to make a sim and those who just want to dump the project and move on to more profitable projects they can sell on consoles. Its obviously the non-sim execs who came up with the idea of trying to turn it into a RPG clone that could appeal to a more casual crowd.

The result is the worst case scenario we see now: SH5 is rejected by the casual gamers and the subsim community, reviews are poor, sales are poor, the game is dumped on the market. The next step is for Ubisoft to shut down the franchise and exit the sim market.

As for someone else coming into the market and producing a new subsim, I personally don't see it. The market fo sims is small and the biggest market share is in flight sims followed by land combat sims. The market for subsims is very small. None of the existing small developpers have the interest to develop naval war sims or even the capacity to produce something as good as SH5 is in its current state without a major investment.

[Adriatico]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

What concerns me is the possibility of the SH series coming to an end

I survived my last concerns in September09 coming GWX4 to an end.

After that, if Ubi doesn't care what they serve to community why should we care more ? ...more than Ubi itself.

If your partner doesn't like you any more - ask yourself what have you done to him.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Adriatico

I survived my last concerns in September09 coming GWX4 to an end.

After that, if Ubi doesn't care what they serve to community why should we care more ? ...more than Ubi itself.

If your partner doesn't like you any more - ask yourself what have you done to him.

So do you reckon it is a possibility that at the end all that will be left is a modding community completing games that weren't fully finished at release?

Or a different game development company entering the arena perhaps?

[Coldcall]

SH series is most played subsim in last few years because its the only one there is, and the dynamic campaign offers replayability.

There is no competition to SH so its a no brainer.

Originally Posted by Coldcall

SH series is most played subsim in last few years because its the only one there is, and the dynamic campaign offers replayability.

There is no competition to SH so its a no brainer.

There are also different projects, Shells of Fury, Danger From The Deep, but they didn't received the kind o support Ubis' products has received. With that support, they would had the chance to "grow", and it was a natural thing to support them, when we all saw that Ubis' products are being put on the market unfinished. But subsim continued to support them, in any way and any condition.
This subsim community is a force in some way, it has a lot of dedicated players, and more than this, modders! And all this force that is not being aware of its own force as an entity is being put to "work" for Ubi. I am not talking about the great things they have accomplished for us, they really did that big time, but also, we are somehow a sustaining force for Ubi, and this is manipulation, since Ubi doesn't treat us with respect. It's somehow manipulated in some way, just because the subsim community is not really aware of its force. And this is the moment Neal should act accordingly, as the leader of this community.
What is happening now is not fair, in my opinion. It's not good at all, maybe we should start to see things clearer.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Coldcall

SH series is most played subsim in last few years because its the only one there is, and the dynamic campaign offers replayability.

There is no competition to SH so its a no brainer.

agreed.

[alexradu89]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

What concerns me is the possibility of the SH series coming to an end

Hope never dies jimbuna ! It may take a while, and a lot of effort but we can just make our own subsim then! We'll start out as a small sprout, but evolve into a freaking huge and awesome tall oak tree!

Originally Posted by alexradu89

Hope never dies jimbuna ! It may take a while, and a lot of effort but we can just make our own subsim then! We'll start out as a small sprout, but evolve into a freaking huge and awesome tall oak tree!

Don't be naive, there won't be such thing as "our subsim". A couple of months ago I've tried to draw some attention and support to the open source project Danger From The Deep (which is still in development mainly because the lack of real support), but with no success, so it's seems that for the majority of the people here Ubi products are just right. Instead of investing so much energy speaking about the crappy and unplayable SH5, it would have been much more constructive to act somehow, to support Danger From The Deep. Like in real life, we are having what we deserve, nothing more and nothing less!