My sub is indestructible... ?? Or is AI so bad ? Or both ?

rulez_Cz · 03-24-10, 09:50 AM

They ramm me...nothing happens. They ramm me and then depth charge me but they miss terribly so nothing happens. They only drop depth charges to shallow depth so when I go to 100 m nothing happens.

I mean how on earth can they miss a submarine they have just hit with their own boat ?? I want to be chased ! I want to be damaged ! I want to feel like being in a fight !

This is June 1940 - I can´t believe that Royal Navy was so useless even though it´s still Happy times.

Fansadox · 03-24-10, 10:02 AM

The ai aint that good i agree. They still need to fix alot of stuff but later in the campaign they will get better in hunting you down.

03-24-10, 10:31 AM

there are some mods that try to help improve the AI

go check the sticky in the mods section

Catfish · 03-24-10, 11:15 AM

Hello,

" ... They ramm me...nothing happens. ..."
This at least is not modelled right

" ... They only drop depth charges to shallow depth so when I go to 100 m nothing happens. ..."
This is perfectly ok until the end of 1941. England and the USA did not think of german boats diving deeper than 80 meters, because this was very much what their own boats were able to, at that time. Even the later modern US Balao class is stated to be able to dive to 450 feet, roughly 150 meters.
So in the first years of the war, the fuses for the depth charges were set to around 80 meters, if at all.

Be careful what you wish for, after capturing one of the VII types (U-570) in 1940, which was then renamed to "HMS Graph" as a test boat, they finally knew what was going on. Soon afterwards new fast-sinking depth charges were built, along with Hedgehog and Squid mortars, and post 1941 it was not so easy anymore

The sinking rates of convoy ships and single cruising ones were still high, since most escorts in 1940-41 had no radar, and were with their 15 knots top speed slower than the U-boats, so despite the capture of the U-570 the U-boats were still able to sink convoy ships at night, surfaced, if they were used like a surface torpedo boat. ASDIC was completely useless against surfaced boats.

Typical situation in 1940-1941:
Convoy spotted, 3-4 escorts if at all. Only one destroyer, and 3 slower rebuilt ships pressed into naval service. Maybe a corvette or Flower class escort, but its top speed being 14-15 knots, if at all. Maybe all have ASDIC of an early version, but no radar - or only the destroyer.
A surfaced U-boat at night was almost invisible, even more if it was going in from the side of the convoy, only showing a narrow silhouette.
There are reports of destroyers and corvettes that passed surfaced U-boats at less than 100 meters, without seeing them at night.
So the boat rides alongside the convoy, at 10 kilometers distance, thoroughly checking general course, time of zigs and zags, and speed.
After overtaking the convoy the boat begins to turn in, in a curve until its course is vertical to, and a bit ahead of, the convoy. The TDC is programmed for the convoy's speed, and from the observation they know that the convoy has just zig-zagged, and will not do this again in the next minutes.
As the boat goes in at flank speed unseen between two outer escorts, the targets are thoroughly picked, torpedo depth adjusted for each target, and the point of impact chosen.
The boat is now between the outer escort shield, and the convoy, still at flank, but waits until it is roughly 1000 meters away fom its farest chosen target. Say two ships at 1000 meter, one at 600, one at 500.
The torpedoes are fired at the farest first, waiting a bit, then the next near one etc., so they will impact roughly at the same time.
When the torpedoes explode, the U-boat is already among them in the middle of the convoy, still at full speed and bound for leaving the convoy on the other side, already reloading torpedoes. Escorts are searching at the wrong side now, because they think that the boat is still on the attacked side of the convoy, and they also were trained to belive that the boat did attack submerged.
So their ASDIC did not fnd anything, and radar is not present. If the boat is being detected and forced to dive, it will escape by just diving to 130 meters, and sneak away.

" ... This is June 1940 - I can´t believe that Royal Navy was so useless even though it´s still Happy times ..."
That is why it is how it is - however the RN was not completely useless, as soon as a an escort had made a U-boat dive this boat was pretty much out of the fight, for this convoy.

Greetings,
Catfish

gutted · 03-24-10, 11:21 AM

Yeah, the game is very easy. Almost to the point of not being fun. Which is a shame, because it's awesome in most other aspects (not counting bugs and missing things).

I pretty much ignore the ship damage. Things break and get fixed within seconds. The Hull is at like 50% yet i can still dive to 100m with no problem. The control room is fllooded yet im not worried at all...

Airplanes 99.9% of the time dont even attack me.

Escorts are very deaf as well. I can slip into a task force full of destroyers while submerged (daylight) and sink the Battleship in the center from 500m away and then slip out without them ever finding me (I've done it many times). And this without the aid of map contacts and sensor display.

I dunno, either TMO in SHIV really has spoiled me.. or the diifculty in SH5 is nonexistant. Stock SH3 put up more of a challenge than this. It's a turkey shoot in my campaign.

PL_Andrev · 03-24-10, 11:23 AM

This is very important BUG !
Please put in to right thread... here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...162462&page=43

Bugs number is proportional to number of SH version...

rulez_Cz · 03-24-10, 11:41 AM

Thanx Catfish, interesting reading. So were any uboats sunk during Happy times?

I would love to post it where u told me Antar but I don´t know how to do it. Repost it??

Piggy · 03-24-10, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rulez_Cz

Thanx Catfish, interesting reading. So were any uboats sunk during Happy times?

There were uboats sunk during the happy times.

http://www.uboat.net/fates/losses/

1939... 9 lost
1940... 24 lost (11 lost to warships)

kylania · 03-24-10, 12:29 PM

I've been rammed and destroyed by a destroyer before.

rulez_Cz · 03-24-10, 01:48 PM

Lucky you

I have just been depth charged - the depth charge exploded just outside the conning tower and guess what.......nothing.

03-24-10, 09:50 AM	#1
rulez_Cz Watch Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 25 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	My sub is indestructible... ?? Or is AI so bad ? Or both ? They ramm me...nothing happens. They ramm me and then depth charge me but they miss terribly so nothing happens. They only drop depth charges to shallow depth so when I go to 100 m nothing happens. I mean how on earth can they miss a submarine they have just hit with their own boat ?? I want to be chased ! I want to be damaged ! I want to feel like being in a fight ! This is June 1940 - I can´t believe that Royal Navy was so useless even though it´s still Happy times. Last edited by rulez_Cz; 03-24-10 at 10:01 AM.

03-24-10, 11:15 AM	#4
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,766 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Hello, " ... They ramm me...nothing happens. ..." This at least is not modelled right " ... They only drop depth charges to shallow depth so when I go to 100 m nothing happens. ..." This is perfectly ok until the end of 1941. England and the USA did not think of german boats diving deeper than 80 meters, because this was very much what their own boats were able to, at that time. Even the later modern US Balao class is stated to be able to dive to 450 feet, roughly 150 meters. So in the first years of the war, the fuses for the depth charges were set to around 80 meters, if at all. Be careful what you wish for, after capturing one of the VII types (U-570) in 1940, which was then renamed to "HMS Graph" as a test boat, they finally knew what was going on. Soon afterwards new fast-sinking depth charges were built, along with Hedgehog and Squid mortars, and post 1941 it was not so easy anymore The sinking rates of convoy ships and single cruising ones were still high, since most escorts in 1940-41 had no radar, and were with their 15 knots top speed slower than the U-boats, so despite the capture of the U-570 the U-boats were still able to sink convoy ships at night, surfaced, if they were used like a surface torpedo boat. ASDIC was completely useless against surfaced boats. Typical situation in 1940-1941: Convoy spotted, 3-4 escorts if at all. Only one destroyer, and 3 slower rebuilt ships pressed into naval service. Maybe a corvette or Flower class escort, but its top speed being 14-15 knots, if at all. Maybe all have ASDIC of an early version, but no radar - or only the destroyer. A surfaced U-boat at night was almost invisible, even more if it was going in from the side of the convoy, only showing a narrow silhouette. There are reports of destroyers and corvettes that passed surfaced U-boats at less than 100 meters, without seeing them at night. So the boat rides alongside the convoy, at 10 kilometers distance, thoroughly checking general course, time of zigs and zags, and speed. After overtaking the convoy the boat begins to turn in, in a curve until its course is vertical to, and a bit ahead of, the convoy. The TDC is programmed for the convoy's speed, and from the observation they know that the convoy has just zig-zagged, and will not do this again in the next minutes. As the boat goes in at flank speed unseen between two outer escorts, the targets are thoroughly picked, torpedo depth adjusted for each target, and the point of impact chosen. The boat is now between the outer escort shield, and the convoy, still at flank, but waits until it is roughly 1000 meters away fom its farest chosen target. Say two ships at 1000 meter, one at 600, one at 500. The torpedoes are fired at the farest first, waiting a bit, then the next near one etc., so they will impact roughly at the same time. When the torpedoes explode, the U-boat is already among them in the middle of the convoy, still at full speed and bound for leaving the convoy on the other side, already reloading torpedoes. Escorts are searching at the wrong side now, because they think that the boat is still on the attacked side of the convoy, and they also were trained to belive that the boat did attack submerged. So their ASDIC did not fnd anything, and radar is not present. If the boat is being detected and forced to dive, it will escape by just diving to 130 meters, and sneak away. " ... This is June 1940 - I can´t believe that Royal Navy was so useless even though it´s still Happy times ..." That is why it is how it is - however the RN was not completely useless, as soon as a an escort had made a U-boat dive this boat was pretty much out of the fight, for this convoy. Greetings, Catfish Last edited by Catfish; 03-24-10 at 11:37 AM.

03-24-10, 11:21 AM	#5
gutted The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA. Posts: 1,379 Downloads: 487 Uploads: 11	Yeah, the game is very easy. Almost to the point of not being fun. Which is a shame, because it's awesome in most other aspects (not counting bugs and missing things). I pretty much ignore the ship damage. Things break and get fixed within seconds. The Hull is at like 50% yet i can still dive to 100m with no problem. The control room is fllooded yet im not worried at all... Airplanes 99.9% of the time dont even attack me. Escorts are very deaf as well. I can slip into a task force full of destroyers while submerged (daylight) and sink the Battleship in the center from 500m away and then slip out without them ever finding me (I've done it many times). And this without the aid of map contacts and sensor display. I dunno, either TMO in SHIV really has spoiled me.. or the diifculty in SH5 is nonexistant. Stock SH3 put up more of a challenge than this. It's a turkey shoot in my campaign. __________________ Solution Solver 2.3.2 - Visual Targeting Tools & Aids Last edited by gutted; 03-24-10 at 12:30 PM.

03-24-10, 11:23 AM	#6
PL_Andrev Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 995 Downloads: 91 Uploads: 0	This is very important BUG ! Please put in to right thread... here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...162462&page=43 Bugs number is proportional to number of SH version... __________________

03-24-10, 12:29 PM	#9
kylania Silent Hunter Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,528 Downloads: 118 Uploads: 0	I've been rammed and destroyed by a destroyer before. __________________

03-24-10, 10:02 AM	#2
Fansadox Watch Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 27 Downloads: 80 Uploads: 0	The ai aint that good i agree. They still need to fix alot of stuff but later in the campaign they will get better in hunting you down.

03-24-10, 10:31 AM	#3
Webster Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	there are some mods that try to help improve the AI go check the sticky in the mods section

03-24-10, 11:41 AM	#7
rulez_Cz Watch Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 25 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Thanx Catfish, interesting reading. So were any uboats sunk during Happy times? I would love to post it where u told me Antar but I don´t know how to do it. Repost it??

03-24-10, 01:48 PM	#10
rulez_Cz Watch Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 25 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Lucky you I have just been depth charged - the depth charge exploded just outside the conning tower and guess what.......nothing.