Das Boot or the American Fleet Boat

[Sailor Steve]

And now for something completely different...









But mine goes to 11.

[sergei]

Originally Posted by MGR1

Don't forget thread drift - always entertaining!

Thread drift! Good one

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

But mine goes to 11.

Perfect example

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by sergei

Perfect example

We aim to please.

Though I wasn't actually drifting - I knew exactly where I was going.

[Krauter]

Sorry to start a pissing contest

But in reality this thread was not aimed to be a "Fleet boats kick U-boats ass!" "No U-boats blah blah blah.."

It was merely meant to show off which contrasts, differences, and similarities you see between the two types IN GAME. More meant as a 'which do you prefer' type question then stating which campaign was better, was the kriegsmarine worth it, etc ,etc.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Krauter

Sorry to start a pissing contest

But in reality this thread was not aimed to be a "Fleet boats kick U-boats ass!" "No U-boats blah blah blah.."

It was merely meant to show off which contrasts, differences, and similarities you see between the two types IN GAME. More meant as a 'which do you prefer' type question then stating which campaign was better, was the kriegsmarine worth it, etc ,etc.

You cannot in good faith start any objective discussion on that topic. Most everyone's a fan of something, and they'll defend what they're into tooth and nail.

[Krauter]

I realise that from observing other forums, but figured this forum had more level headed people

Anyways, no harm intended.. Apologize if I opened any rifts between people.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by Krauter

I realise that from observing other forums, but figured this forum had more level headed people

People are people, no matter where you go.

[Krauter]

Kind of a cynical way to view people but I digress, the fact of the matter is that the aim of this thread was to provide technical differences on each type as well as how the theatre affected and developped said differences

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Krauter

Sorry to start a pissing contest

Actually you didn't - it's been going on for years. If you read back through the thread you'll see some real discussion in there, if not too much.

Every genre has its serious scholars as well as its fanboys. Just start a thread on P-51 vs Bf-109. We had one of those over in General Topics some time back, and of course there was one guy who just knew that the Mustang was the best piston-engined fighter ever! I tried to show actual technical and statistical comparisons which indicated that there really wasn't much to choose between, but I was the one who refused to listen to reason.

The fact is that if we talk about diving limits, the online source says that u-boats could dive much deeper. But that very source doesn't mention the fact that Type VIIc u-boats were 'rated' at only 90 meters, yet it mentions that they actually dove to well over 200. Yet a source that indicates that the Balao could go well below it's indicated 450 feet is dismissed simply because it's Wiki. And yet Wiki has been more reliable where submarines are concerned than any other online source I've seen. One book I read (I have to go to the other library to recheck the title) claimed that later US boats could be expected to be safe at twice their listed test depth, which would give the Balao a whopping 900 feet.

True? Who knows? My point isn't what is 'better', but that claims are made for different technologies, and fans are made and stick to their guns no matter what. You're never going to have a discussion about differences without people wanting to prove that "mine is stronger/faster/bigger than yours."

It's human nature to believe, and to feel the need to prove your belief.

[Ducimus]

[Noren]

...but we can always try to stay objective and discuss the strategic, tactical and mechanical nature of the subs of ww2 now cant we?

I admit I got a little carried away when someone wrote that the german navy never had chance at all in ww2 (and Im in no way german of a pro-nazi), it was a bit one-sided for me.

[Chromius]

Actually this thread was quite informative and fine, till someone reacted to a post and forced it into a sub vs sub, when obviously it was not the intent.

And people need to beware some of the data available on Wikipedia and some of the web sites its ok for most general data, but there are inconsistencies with some actual books/publications and other test results.

[Krauter]

That was my aim in effect in creating this thread, to remain objective and keep discussion lively, yet informative.

I'm very interested to see how the two great (well maybe 2 of three if you include baltic..) submarine campaigns of the Second World War compare to each other, and how technologie and the boats played out to determine the winner.

Yes I understand the vastness of the pacific demanded the fleet boats be larger, but once the VIIs were able to operate out of bases in france they were able to patrol out into the atlantic. My question is, if the Gato was so successful mid ocean as well as in the coastal waters and confined waters of the Japanese seaboard, why did the germans not just concentrate on constructing and operating a Type IX boat or something along those lines able to patrol around the British Isles, the Atlantic Gap and the American/Carribean/etc Seaboards?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

But mine goes to 11.

Love that film.

[Sailor Steve]

@ Krauter: You might want to find a copy of War Beneath The Sea, by Peter Padfield. He gives a nice overview of every nation's submarine efforts; how they developed and what they accomplished. It doesn't go as deep as some others, but it really gives a feel for what the aims of the different navies were and how their technologies, both sub and ASW, developed.