Das Boot or the American Fleet Boat

Noren · 03-22-10, 01:47 PM

Thats a great post, but how can you be so sure of yourself?

First: the japanese fleet knew that there wasa sub out there somewhere and radio/radar-detectors could generally give the bearing. If they have numerous bearings simultaniously they can triangulate the subs position and locate it.
Even without triangulation, the captain could have sent a patrol of destroyers after the sub. This is all only theories but logical ones and the japanese commander made an error.

Next you speak of convoys of 500 ships? Only in the very end of the pacific war have I heard of such concentrations of ships, namely american taskforces. Early in the battle of the atlantic, convoys were often 10-50 ships and lightly protected, so even few uboats could wreck havoc there (like Kretschmer did during nightattacks).

One could argu that if Döntiz had even more uboats, with working torpedoes at the onset of the war, before effective asdic, DC, fast shipbuilding, enigma codebreaking and naval aircraft patrols perhaps England indeed would have been severly cut of - like Churchill feared.

Shift resources from the navy to the army? The navy was small to begin with. I dont think what would have much an impact, perhaps a few more panzer divisions and perhaps 10 more infantry divisions but it would'nt had halted the russians or made much of a strategic differance when germany was fighting on 3 fronts.

Dowly · 03-22-10, 02:05 PM

Not this BS again.

Gammelpreusse · 03-22-10, 02:10 PM

yeah, nationalistic polemics had to happen in such a thread eventually, as much a pity as that is.

AVGWarhawk · 03-22-10, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

Not this BS again.

Yes sir!

My boats better'n your boat, my boats just better than ur'ins boat, my boats better.....

Dowly · 03-22-10, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Yes sir!

My boats better'n your boat, my boats just better than ur'ins boat, my boats better.....

Hah, exactly.

SteamWake · 03-22-10, 02:45 PM

Hey with the right skillz and some good soup you can dive, turn, and surface in the blink of the eye. Regardless of what boat.

I maxed out those skills just to see and holy crap I can dive in less than 10 seconds

So.. uhh.. how can you really make any kind of comparison?

Ducimus · 03-22-10, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

Not this BS again.

Heh, i thought exactly that the first i saw this thread. I admit comparisons are fun, so long as they are fair and proper. However, all to often people are far too eager (or too ignorant) and start comparing fleet boats to type 7's, that's like comparing an SUV to a sports car, or comparing type 7's to type 9's. In general this topic is rather interesting or frustrating, depending on the level of ignorance displayed by either side of the argument. Regardless it is a topic has been beat into the ground with a pile driver.

MGR1 · 03-22-10, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Heh, i thought exactly that the first i saw this thread. I admit comparisons are fun, so long as they are fair and proper. However, all to often people are far too eager (or too ignorant) and start comparing fleet boats to type 7's, that's like comparing an SUV to a sports car, or comparing type 7's to type 9's. In general this topic is rather interesting or frustrating, depending on the level of ignorance displayed by either side of the argument. Regardless it is a topic has been beat into the ground with a pile driver.

Don't forget thread drift - always entertaining!

I see we've migrated from a comparison of subs, to discussing German Panzer divisions....

Mike.

P.S. Who chose the order of the Avatars? I see I've been shipwrecked!

coasterdigi · 03-22-10, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVGWarhawk

Yes sir!

My boats better'n your boat, my boats just better than ur'ins boat, my boats better.....

...because she eats Kahlen Ration!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGR1

Don't forget thread drift - always entertaining!

Yep. And now we're on dog food puns.

Sailor Steve · 03-22-10, 05:01 PM

And now for something completely different...

But mine goes to 11.

sergei · 03-22-10, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MGR1

Don't forget thread drift - always entertaining!

Thread drift! Good one

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

But mine goes to 11.

Perfect example

Takeda Shingen · 03-22-10, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

But mine goes to 11.

Love that film.

Dread Knot · 03-22-10, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noren

Shift resources from the navy to the army? The navy was small to begin with. I dont think what would have much an impact, perhaps a few more panzer divisions and perhaps 10 more infantry divisions but it would'nt had halted the russians or made much of a strategic differance when germany was fighting on 3 fronts.

A few extra panzer divisions would have made a HUGE difference in August 1941 when the Germans had to make a choice between taking Kiev or Moscow. Panzergruppe Guderian was diverted south to help Runstedt take encircle Kiev and the Germans lost their best bet to take Moscow before winter set in.

Gammelpreusse · 03-22-10, 03:14 PM

Had there not a been a couple of diversions and botch ups by the italian allies, these devisions would have been available. But war is highly dynamic, you never know what to actually plan for as all predictions can be thrown over within a moment, as such these what ifs are pretty much senseless. This becomes more true the longer a war drags on.

03-22-10, 02:10 PM	#3
Gammelpreusse Planesman Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 191 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	yeah, nationalistic polemics had to happen in such a thread eventually, as much a pity as that is. __________________

03-22-10, 02:45 PM	#6
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Hey with the right skillz and some good soup you can dive, turn, and surface in the blink of the eye. Regardless of what boat. I maxed out those skills just to see and holy crap I can dive in less than 10 seconds So.. uhh.. how can you really make any kind of comparison? __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

03-22-10, 05:01 PM	#10
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	And now for something completely different... But mine goes to 11. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

03-22-10, 03:14 PM	#14
Gammelpreusse Planesman Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 191 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	Had there not a been a couple of diversions and botch ups by the italian allies, these devisions would have been available. But war is highly dynamic, you never know what to actually plan for as all predictions can be thrown over within a moment, as such these what ifs are pretty much senseless. This becomes more true the longer a war drags on. __________________

03-22-10, 01:47 PM	#1
Noren 中国水兵 Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 284 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Thats a great post, but how can you be so sure of yourself? First: the japanese fleet knew that there wasa sub out there somewhere and radio/radar-detectors could generally give the bearing. If they have numerous bearings simultaniously they can triangulate the subs position and locate it. Even without triangulation, the captain could have sent a patrol of destroyers after the sub. This is all only theories but logical ones and the japanese commander made an error. Next you speak of convoys of 500 ships? Only in the very end of the pacific war have I heard of such concentrations of ships, namely american taskforces. Early in the battle of the atlantic, convoys were often 10-50 ships and lightly protected, so even few uboats could wreck havoc there (like Kretschmer did during nightattacks). One could argu that if Döntiz had even more uboats, with working torpedoes at the onset of the war, before effective asdic, DC, fast shipbuilding, enigma codebreaking and naval aircraft patrols perhaps England indeed would have been severly cut of - like Churchill feared. Shift resources from the navy to the army? The navy was small to begin with. I dont think what would have much an impact, perhaps a few more panzer divisions and perhaps 10 more infantry divisions but it would'nt had halted the russians or made much of a strategic differance when germany was fighting on 3 fronts.

03-22-10, 02:05 PM	#2
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,053 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Not this BS again.