Where are the DRM fanboys this AM ?

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by Baleur

Actually, it is "our" game. We do own the software.
Granted, we cant make changes and re-sell it under another name or blah blah profit. But we bought it, its ours. Just like its "your" volvo or "your" loaf of bread or "your" LOTR dvd collection.

You are SOOOOO wrong.

You buy a licence to use the product.

1- The Licence

Ubisoft grants the User a non-exclusive and non-transferable Licence to use the Multimedia Product, but remains the owner of all the rights relating thereto.
Any rights not specifically transferred by this Licence remain the property of Ubisoft.
The Multimedia Product is licensed and not sold to the User, for private use.
The Licence does not confer any right or title to the Multimedia Product and cannot be understood as a transfer of intellectual property rights to the Multimedia Product.

If it was yours because you bought it, then you would be allowed to copy and sell it.
If you want to own the game then you can buy the rights to it. but it'll cost you alot more than buying a licence to play the game.

[Nordmann]

If you're renting the game (which is what a license basically is), if and when support for the game ceases, technically your money should be refunded or the product replaced. Rent a TV or washing machine, this is how it works.

[VetteDvr]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

thank you for posting that!

I spent some time yesterday looking through the subsim archives to see how SH3 was received back in 2005 and I was surprised by the difference.

first, there were a lot less posts, obviously we were a smaller community back then.

second, you also had similar posts where members complained or praised this or that aspect of the game.

But the biggest difference was the tone. Members disagreed, but everyone was respectful of other member's opinion, even when we discussed something as divisive as Starforce.

It was clear that all members were motivated by a mutual desire to improve SH3.

But something has changed, this forum now has a meaner, cruel overtone. Many posters are only interested in winning an argument, no matter what tactics they use, showing little or no respect and freely insulting anyone who disagrees with them.

I really don't like where this forum is going. It's not the old Subsim forum I used to know and like to hang around in.

Unfortunately that is what seems to be happening to every forum that I go too. I guess it's just the way this world works nowadays.

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by Nordmann

If you're renting the game (which is what a license basically is), if and when support for the game ceases, technically your money should be refunded or the product replaced. Rent a TV or washing machine, this is how it works.

If you rent a TV, when the rental time expires the TV is taken back. When software is no longer surported, you are still free to use that software within the EULA.

So what you are paying for is a lifetime licence. And as long as you use the software within the terms of the EULA, then the licence would not be revoked. So why would you get a refund???? you can still use the product.

Originally Posted by Nordmann

If you're renting the game (which is what a license basically is), if and when support for the game ceases, technically your money should be refunded or the product replaced. Rent a TV or washing machine, this is how it works.

No.
When you rent something you never get your money back.
You have an agreement as to how long your renting and
once that agreement is fulfilled?
You move along and the LandLord keeps the money.
Ubi can cancel your 'rent' at anytime.
It's a case of 'Buyer Beware'.

It's been well posted what was comeing!
Take your lumps like a Man.
And TRY to learn from this.

[Nordmann]

Originally Posted by jwilliams

If you rent a TV, when the rental time expires the TV is taken back. When software is no longer surported, you are still free to use that software within the EULA.

So what you are paying for is a lifetime licence. And as long as you use the software within the terms of the EULA, then the licence would not be revoked. So why would you get a refund???? you can still use the product.

We rent both TV and washing machine, there is no rental time limit, we can rent for as long as we like. When either breaks down, or reaches a certain age, they are repaired/replaced free of charge. If support for either model stops, again, they are replaced with one which is supported.

Yes, we can still use the software, assuming they either provide unlimited access to the OSP servers, or a patch making said servers unnecessary. But if the company goes bye, bye, who will be there to make the patch?

Also, it's worth noting, that they can cease support for the game at any time, especially given the net requirement. It will be in the EULA. Basically, as a consumer, you have sod all rights as far as they are concerned.

Originally Posted by privateer

No.
When you rent something you never get your money back.

True, but when you rent something, you expect it to work. If it does not, the company you are renting from are responsible.

You have an agreement as to how long your renting and
once that agreement is fulfilled?
You move along and the LandLord keeps the money.

We are referring to software/hardware, not property. In any case, the landlord is still responsible for certain services.


Ubi can cancel your 'rent' at anytime.
It's a case of 'Buyer Beware'.

This is what I'm talking about. They have your money, and you have a lemon you cannot use. I doubt they can get away with that, EULA or not.

It's been well posted what was comeing!
Take your lumps like a Man.
And TRY to learn from this.

Yes, and I was one of the posters who predicted the downtime chaos, so I don't need to take any lumps or learn from it. I didn't buy the game!

And I'm sure that if you took them back today you'd get ALL your money back?

As one misguided Soul believes.

OHH!
You were editing as I was posting.

The Game works.
Ubi promised no Updates.
No guarantee of lenght of service is implied that I can find.
I'm happy for you,
BUT!
Why worry about it if you didn't pay up?

[Nordmann]

Originally Posted by privateer

And I'm sure that if you took them back today you'd get ALL your money back?

As one misguided Soul believes.

No, but if they failed to work, or were provided in an unsatisfactory condition, I would have a case for a refund or replacement. Now, if it were my fault that said product did not work, then you are correct, but obviously that is not the case with this game.

The only misguided people here, are the ones who are willing to accept unsatisfactory conditions, such as the OSP downtime fiasco.

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by Nordmann

We rent both TV and washing machine, there is no rental time limit, we can rent for as long as we like. When either breaks down, or reaches a certain age, they are repaired/replaced free of charge. If support for either model stops, again, they are replaced with one which is supported.

Yes, we can still use the software, assuming they either provide unlimited access to the OSP servers, or a patch making said servers unnecessary. But if the company goes bye, bye, who will be there to make the patch?

Also, it's worth noting, that they can cease support for the game at any time, especially given the net requirement. It will be in the EULA. Basically, as a consumer, you have sod all rights as far as they are concerned.

And you were aware of this before you bought the game. Therefore you knew the risks.

And as for patch should servers be taken offline..... its in the EULA that they will release a patch to remove the online requirment.

And should Ubi go under before the patch..... i believe that a certain wares group has already released a patch.

[Nordmann]

Originally Posted by jwilliams

And you were aware of this before you bought the game. Therefore you knew the risks.

And as for patch should servers be taken offline..... its in the EULA that they will release a patch to remove the online requirment.

And should they go Ubi go under before the patch..... i believe that a certain wares group has already released a patch.

I didn't buy the game, so thankfully Ubi didn't have me over a barrel.

You really believe they will patch the OSP out of the game? Good luck, that would be as good as admitting they were wrong, and games companies rarely do that.

If Ubi goes under, and there is no official offline patch, are you really willing to trust the shadier sites? Because if so, you are a braver man than I.

I know most of the Shadow site people.
I trust them more then I trust Ubi Upper Management!

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by Nordmann

No, but if they failed to work, or were provided in an unsatisfactory condition, I would have a case for a refund or replacement. Now, if it were my fault that said product did not work, then you are correct, but obviously that is not the case with this game.

The only misguided people here, are the ones who are willing to accept unsatisfactory conditions, such as the OSP downtime fiasco.

If the product doe not work, you can return it. 90 days warrenty. (its in the EULA)
If you dont agree to the EULA, you can return it. 30 days ( also in th EULA)
If the product isnt up to your standards.... doubt theres much you can do. Its the same for most things you buy.
e.g. if you buy a book and dont like the story. can you return it?... not if theres nothing defective with the product.

And with the OSP fiasco.... Well Ubi will have to do something about that. Im sure that, if it continues then they could end up in court over it. due to it being a service. but you would have to give them resonable time to try to rectify it.

I'd say,
Sue Microsoft 1st.
See how that goes!
Don't we get more BSOD then problems from Ubi's SH stuff?

And exactly when was the last lawsuit against Microsoft
for the BSOD won?

[Iron Budokan]

Originally Posted by jwilliams

You are SOOOOO wrong.

You buy a licence to use the product.

If it was yours because you bought it, then you would be allowed to copy and sell it.

This is true. As a professional writer I run into this misinformation a lot, parcticularly from people who buy books and believe the book somehow is "theirs" to do with as they want. I know a lot of people want to believe the game (or book or music or whatever) "belongs" to them when they purchase it. But it actually doesn't; the copyright law says differently. Same for games, I'm afraid.

And, no, sorry to say, just because you can second sell some media doesn't mean it belongs to you. Sorry, guys, it just doesn't, and it never did.

Originally Posted by JScones

Or maybe some new phully sick and rad word that the young'ens use?


Please be "There'll be sad songs"...
Please be "There'll be sad songs"...
Please be "There'll be sad songs"...

...

D'oh.

Well, you can never have too much Billy Ocean.