What's up with that post about French destroyer surrendering on the news page?

[BarjackU977]

Thats' a lot of historical mentions. I'm not much knowledgeable about history, even if I remember about some of those mentions.
There are well few things I noticed that I could comment, but that's not related to the content, rather to the style revealing your skill to present history in the most insulting possible way.

Just an example I noted. French beaten by a mere Brittish footwear designer? But when it comes to Joan of Arc, well, you didn't present in the same way, which would have been Brittish troops being beaten by a mere crazy French peasant girl.
But I won't comment further, as I lack knowledge about history.

Yet, from a human perspective, your style raise the questions of your intent. So, Jimbuna, what's your point with this post, actually?
I assume you have a message? Some hate? Humiliation? Maybe that every Frenchman born is a looser of some sort? Certainly, you didn't intent to be warm and welcoming with French, here.

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I agree, enough of this anti French dialogue....and this is coming from a Brit, a country with a long history of having the French as an adversary.

Stop this sniping/speculation. Far more accurate to rely on the facts:

- Gallic Wars
- Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian. [Or at ths time in history, a Roman -ed.]

- Hundred Years War
- Mostly lost, saved at last by female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare; "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman." Sainted.

- Italian Wars
- Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.

- Wars of Religion
- France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots

- Thirty Years War
- France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

- War of Revolution
- Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

- The Dutch War
- Tied

- War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War
- Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Frogophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.

- War of the Spanish Succession
- Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.

- American Revolution
- In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare; "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

- French Revolution
- Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

- The Napoleonic Wars
- Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

- The Franco-Prussian War
- Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

- World War I
- Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States [Entering the war late -ed.]. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

- World War II
- Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song.

- War in Indochina
- Lost. French forces plead sickness; take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu

- Algerian Rebellion
- Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare; "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.

- War on Terrorism
- France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.

The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not be "Can we count on the French?", but rather "How long until France collapses?"

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage."

Or, better still, the quote from last week's Wall Street Journal: "They're there when they need you."

Oh...nearly forgot this:

Mexico, 1863-1864.
France attempts to take advantage of Mexico's weakness following its thorough thrashing by the U.S. 20 years earlier ("Halls of Montezuma"). Not surprisingly, the only unit to distinguish itself is the French Foreign Legion (consisting of, by definition, non-Frenchmen). Booted out of the country a little over a year after arrival.

Panama jungles 1881-1890.
No one but nature to fight, France still loses; canal is eventually built by the U.S. 1904-1914.

Napoleonic Wars.
Should be noted that the Grand Armee was largely (~%50) composed of non-Frenchmen after 1804 or so. Mainly disgruntled minorities and anti-monarchists. Not surprisingly, these performed better than the French on many occasions.

Haiti, 1791-1804.
French defeated by rebellion after sacrificing 4,000 Poles to yellow fever. Shows another rule of French warfare; when in doubt, send an ally.

India, 1673-1813.
British were far more charming than French, ended up victors. Therefore the British are well known for their tea, and the French for their whine (er, wine...). Ensures 200 years of bad teeth in England.

Barbary Wars, middle ages-1830.
Pirates in North Africa continually harass European shipping in Meditteranean. France's solution: pay them to leave us alone. America's solution: kick their asses ("the Shores of Tripoli"). [America's] first overseas victories, won 1801-1815.

1798-1801, Quasi-War with U.S.
French privateers (semi-legal pirates) attack U.S. shipping. U.S. fights France at sea for 3 years; French eventually cave; sets precedent for next 200 years of Franco-American relations.

Moors in Spain, late 700s-early 800s.
Even with Charlemagne leading them against an enemy living in a hostile land, French are unable to make much progress. Hide behind Pyrennes until the modern day.
French-on-French losses (probably should be counted as victories too, just to be fair):

1208: Albigenses Crusade, French massacared by French.
When asked how to differentiate a heretic from the faithful, response was "Kill them all. God will know His own." Lesson: French are badasses when fighting unarmed men, women and children.

St. Bartholomew Day Massacre, August 24, 1572.
Once again, French-on-French slaughter.

Third Crusade.
Philip Augustus of France throws hissy-fit, leaves Crusade for Richard the Lion Heart to finish.

Seventh Crusade.
St. Louis of France leads Crusade to Egypt. Resoundingly crushed.

[Eighth] Crusade.
St. Louis back in action, this time in Tunis. See Seventh Crusade.
Also should be noted that France attempted to hide behind the Maginot line, sticking their head in the sand and pretending that the Germans would enter France that way. By doing so, the Germans would have been breaking with their traditional route of invading France, entering through Belgium (Napoleonic Wars, Franco-Prussian War, World War I, etc.). French ignored this though, and put all their effort into these defenses.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by BarjackU977

Yet, from a human perspective, your style raise the questions of your intent. So, Jimbuna, what's your point with this post, actually?
I assume you have a message? Some hate? Humiliation? Maybe that every Frenchman born is a looser of some sort? Certainly, you didn't intent to be warm and welcoming with French, here.

There's no hate involved at all. Sometimes somebody starts a joke about somebody else, and it just catches on. In the 1970s here in America for some reason there were a rash of jokes about "dumb Polacks". Most of us know that Poles are no more stupid, nor in general smarter, than any of the rest of us, but we loved them anyway.

For the last 15 years or so it's been "dumb blondes". Every one of us has known highly intelligent women, and men, who had yellow hair. But we love the jokes anyway.

You are right: the French jokes started with their decision not to become involved in the US invasion of Iraq. And it went off from there.

On the other hand, many of us remember that the United States would have had a much harder time with our little rebellion against the British without the help of men with names like Lafayette, Rochambeau and De Grasse.

But the jokes are fun, and soon it may be someone elses turn. Of course all Frenchmen are cowards, just as all Scots are tightwads, all Irish are drunks, all Germans are militarists, all Japanese wear glasses and are technophiles, all Americans are domineering, all Canadians wear funny hats, all Australians hunt alligators with their bare hands, all...

[krashkart]

One of my favorite stereotypes of the USA.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by BarjackU977

Thats' a lot of historical mentions. I'm not much knowledgeable about history, even if I remember about some of those mentions.
There are well few things I noticed that I could comment, but that's not related to the content, rather to the style revealing your skill to present history in the most insulting possible way.

Just an example I noted. French beaten by a mere Brittish footwear designer? But when it comes to Joan of Arc, well, you didn't present in the same way, which would have been Brittish troops being beaten by a mere crazy French peasant girl.
But I won't comment further, as I lack knowledge about history.

Yet, from a human perspective, your style raise the questions of your intent. So, Jimbuna, what's your point with this post, actually?
I assume you have a message? Some hate? Humiliation? Maybe that every Frenchman born is a looser of some sort? Certainly, you didn't intent to be warm and welcoming with French, here.

Comment away BarjackU977, it bothers me not.

It was never my intention to disrespect France as a nation but rather that I post as a joke, a form of humour.

If you are offended then I apologise unreservedly.

I would ask one thing of you though.....read the post of Sailor Steve, a well respected member of this community and consider its content.

If you have difficulty in understanding the meaning of his post or mine, or feel unable to embrace its meaning then you have three choices:

1) Feel free to post 'jokes' regarding the British (let me assure you I have a broad sense of humour and will in no way feel offended so long as the content is not perceived to be deliberately provocative) what I posted earlier has already been posted by at least one other on a previous occasion).

2) Take this to PM exchanges.

3) Read up on French military history and challenge the accuracy of the detail.

Respectfully Yours
Jimbuna

[krashkart]

Hey, anyone know what happened to my freedom fries?

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by krashkart

Hey, anyone know what happened to my freedom fries?

I ate 'em.

Never yet met a potato I didn't like. And I renamed 'em French fries before I did way with 'em, so neener neener.

[krashkart]

Originally Posted by frau kaleun

I ate 'em.

Never yet met a potato I didn't like. And I renamed 'em French fries before I did way with 'em, so neener neener.

Drat! I've been foiled by a superior female mind... again!!

I never met a tater dumpling that couldn't be buried under a heap of sauerkraut.

*nom*

[frau kaleun]

Originally Posted by krashkart

Drat! I've been foiled by a superior female mind... again!!

I think it was actually a superior female appetite. This time.

[BarjackU977]

Sailor Steve,

I get your point.
And with this one type of humor, the question remains: where is the border between "having fun" and "making fun of" (mocking).

It's at a different level for each person. It varies with the mood of the day. It depends on the perception of "balance", on personal experiences, on the context, on the "quality" of the joke. It's easy to take this type of joke as a joke one time, two times, three times, but the higher it goes in frequency, the higher the chances are that the target gets tired about the joke. Especially when people who really mean to insult happen to come along (and since the 2nd war in Irak, I came across a certain amount of such people), which was hopefully not the case in this topic.

I think it's nothing new for any of us. It's a debate many others had before.


Jimbuna,
other comments included, for example, that the Roman empire didn't have its border stop to Italy and France but that they included England as well, that the USA also took its troops back from Vietnam and things like that. There is no point, since you meant to joke.
But thus, it's not about me having a personal difficulty in understanding or about an inability to embrace the meaning of a joke, it's rather about the context and the other above mentioned reasons.
And yes, like MikiBzh said, having different cultures and languages can also cause misunderstanding.