...once upon a time in Nazi occupied France...

[pythos]

You know, the OP nailed the gripes some people are having.

What the heck does simulation mean to some of you?

Were you the same people that bitched and moaned about flight sim aircraft gaining virtual cockpits? "oh, that's too much eye candy, and it blocks my view."

In SH5 you can give orders for the boat from ANY location, even outside the boat....JUST LIKE SH2,3, and 4!!!

The only issue I have is closing the hatch with the crew on bridge, that is really un-realistic.

As far as the commander needing to look at the gauges to gain situational awareness, is technically not right. When in an attack scenario the commander was at the periscope, and the 1wo was up in the conning tower with him. The captain made observations, and the WO put that data into the torpedo computer, also in the tower.

Sh5, does not model this, and I am sure if it did, it would be one more gripe for those that want a sim to not be a sim.

[Faamecanic]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Kpt. Wagner is asked to attend a meeting with Admiral Donitz.


Donitz: good news, Wagner, based on your performance with the SH3 type VII-A, I am giving you command of the brand new SH5 type VII-C.

Wagner: herr admiral, I must respectfully decline.

Donitz: why?

Wagner: the SH5 sub is not realistic. For example, I am expected to walk inside the sub from station to station. I am expected to leave the bridge before the boat will dive. I preferred my SH3 boat where I could magically teleport from station to station, like in Star Trek. That was much more "realistic".

Donitz: anything else?

Wagner: yes, I also do not like the periscope station. I am expected to be able to tell the XO the proposed solution while being able to rotate the scope to keep an eye on pesky escorts. I much preferred my SH3 sub where my scope was locked on the target and I was expected to manually input data into the TDC, while the rest of the crew just stands by and looks.

Donitz: I see.

Wagner: And another thing. I am expected to actually look at the dials in the conning tower, as a real captain would, to see my speed, depth, rudder angle, engine rpm, etc. I much preferred my old SH3 sub where dials would float in the air like the HUD on a modern fighter. It was much more "realistic".

Donitz: most disturbing.

Wagner: one additional point, herr admiral, in Sh5, I am expected to only deal with the officers and senior petty officers, as a real skipper does, instead of micromanaging each and every crew member as I had to do in SH3.

Donitz: I understand all your concerns, Wagner, but is'nt the whole point of a submarine simulation to put you in the same situation as a real life captain on a real life U-boat?

Wagner: With respect, herr admiral, the whole point of a submarine simulation is to be "realistic", not to simulate real life...

Realistic....

Wagner: I also love my Radar unit so I can spot those Liberty Class Cargo ships...they have so much more tonnage than the average ship!

Donitz: What...what Radar....we are researching such technology now..but it is years from coming about. And what is this...Liberty? ship?.....

Wagner: Nevermind...I forgot...its only 1939 and I shouldnt have radar yet and Liberty ships arent being built yet.

Ahh..well so much for realism.

[Faamecanic]

ROFL.... cross posting and QFT http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/t...7/m/5511054148

and a snippet

"WO, man the deck gun."

"MAN THE DECK GUN," the WO bellowed.

I ordered the deck gun crew to fire on the closest ships. After a few solid hits it began to sink. My first kill!

Without orders the deck gun crew began to fire on a 2nd merchant. "Whoa!" I shouted. "WO, secure the deck gun."

"MAN THE DECK GUN"

"No, secure it!"

"MAN THE DECK GUN

"Sailor! I order you to cease fire!"

"MAN THE DECK GUN"

"Christ! Nav officer, prepare to dive. What's our depth under keel!"

The Nav Officer again just stared at me. "Hello?" I said over the com. "Ah, forget it. Dive! All hands below, Secure the deck gun! Dive!"

"MAN THE DECK GUN"

Yeah, you stay here and take care of that

[pythos]

This is the serious bug that needs to go. I want commands added to the watch officer to not only man the guns but have control over targeting, and firing...ala, sh2 sh3 and sh4. Why they removed such functions is quite beyond my comprehension.

[GDFTigerTank]

Originally Posted by pythos

You know, the OP nailed the gripes some people are having.

What the heck does simulation mean to some of you?

In SH5 you can give orders for the boat from ANY location, even outside the boat....JUST LIKE SH2,3, and 4!!!

The only issue I have is closing the hatch with the crew on bridge, that is really un-realistic.

You've obviously not been caught on the surface with a saved game file where a destroyer pops up 1500 yards -in broad daylight with not a cloud in the sky- from you because your crew morale is bugged to 0 and then it won't let you order a dive because you're standing on deck and so futilely make a run for the conn and then get to watch helplessly as you get rammed or gunned down

Or had your entire surprise night attack on a convoy blown because your deck gun randomly decides to open fire and/or won't cease firing.

Or tried to order your crew to rig for silent running and "red alert" and then be told that your entire crew refuses to comply because the XO is hurt.


Yes you're right, we're completely hypocritical in our desire for realism when we ask for these things and other things like that to be changed.

/sarcasm off

[conus00]

[flymar]

@Captain Haplo

And your post is exactly what I had in mind. Certain unrealistic interface is just a handicap of real information flow. I wish it all was voice commanded but it isn't.
I must say that after a while I beginning to like this whole 'running' things. There's not so much of it. Deck, control room and periscope station, sometimes hydrophone. What I don't like about it that it's just halfway done. over 50 man on the boat and how many models.. 15? When I order crash dive I would want to see watch dropping down the ladders and some quick moves around the boat. I miss the old SH3 damage screen with little pump icons. I don't like the specific crew characters. I rather prefer to 'make my own story' and not stick with Hans, Franz and whatever-his-name.

[Ducimus]

Post title ..once upon a time in Nazi occupied France. reminds me of this:

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/180840...tandardformat/

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Post title ..once upon a time in Nazi occupied France. reminds me of this:

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/180840...tandardformat/

that was intentional...

[Juliano]

Originally Posted by flymar

@Captain Haplo
I don't like the specific crew characters. I rather prefer to 'make my own story' and not stick with Hans, Franz and whatever-his-name.

Yeah
I really miss the "randomness" of the previous games
Hope the modders are working on a new campaign modell like the old style one, that would be just great!

[col_Kurtz]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Does that mean the "B" in Type VIIB stands for "Beta"?

VIIA VIIB Absolute Beginners... What about type C? Casual?

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Does that mean the "B" in Type VIIB stands for "Beta"?

[Piggy]

Funny, but I thought I would edit it on behalf of the people who can't play the game....

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Kpt. Wagner is asked to attend a meeting with Admiral Donitz.


Donitz: good news, Wagner, based on your performance with the SH3 type VII-A, I am giving you command of the brand new SH5 type VII-C.

Wagner: herr admiral, I must respectfully decline.

Donitz: why?

Wagner: Im unable to connect to Berlin to verify I am Capt. Wagner, must be that fat slob churchhill's new secret weapon.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by GDFTigerTank

You've obviously not been caught on the surface with a saved game file where a destroyer pops up 1500 yards -in broad daylight with not a cloud in the sky- from you because your crew morale is bugged to 0 and then it won't let you order a dive because you're standing on deck and so futilely make a run for the conn and then get to watch helplessly as you get rammed or gunned down

Or had your entire surprise night attack on a convoy blown because your deck gun randomly decides to open fire and/or won't cease firing.

Or tried to order your crew to rig for silent running and "red alert" and then be told that your entire crew refuses to comply because the XO is hurt.


Yes you're right, we're completely hypocritical in our desire for realism when we ask for these things and other things like that to be changed.

/sarcasm off

quite correct, but these are bugs which will be dealt with by the developpers in patches or by modders.

SH3 also had its share of bugs, like the crew fatigue bug, the super deck gun, the infaillible WO (the target is at 1234 meters, travelling at 4.79 knots, AOB of 62.5 degrees..), the laser Auto TDC, the infamous red triangle ,etc, etc.

And of course, there are some traditions to uphold whenever any new subsim is launched:

the "this game is no good" thread:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB_archive1...ic.php?t=30683

the "Ubi is going down the drain" thread:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB_archive1...er=asc&start=0

the "the reason I wont buy this sim" thread:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB_archive1...ic.php?t=30700

the "the AI has a problem" thread:

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB_archive1...ic.php?t=31195


It's déjà vu all over again!

[Safe-Keeper]

"Captain!", cried Number One, "enemy destroyer dead ahead!". Gott im Himmel, I thought as I staggered out of my captain's bunk. "I thought you had our radio guy call up our spy sats to reveal all targets in our immediate 2000 km radius!". "We did", came the reply at once, "but apparently this one spawned after that!". "Very well", I replied, and wanting to ensure I had a full overview of the tactical situation at hand, I made sure to add, "how is your family?". "Oh, my kids are rascals", he told me, gaining a point of morale, "and I'm so proud of them, members of the old stock!". I hesitated to ask him what the hell "members of the old stock" meant, but that'd probably just cause me to lose even more Leadership Points, so I declined. "All right, then", I said instead", "Number One, take us to 20m and engage the Mk. III Silent Running cloaking device! Oh, and sonar dude, I need a bearing to target and the latest gossip on the new lieutenant!"

"Engaging cloaking device. Sonar dude reports destroyer is at 23 degrees and closing fast, and that the lieutenant is an stuck-up twat!". I breathed a sigh of relief -- employing Silent Running protected our subs from hydrophones, eyeballs and scanners through the use of state-of-the-art technology from our Klingon allies in the Mediterranean. Sure enough, the Destroyer passed above, only a few metres from us, realized the hopelessness of further scanning, and turned to leave. Now to counter-attack before she went to Ridiculous Speed. Taking the sub to 10 metres, I got a lock on the Destroyer, and its data was calculated by our advanced targeting computer (which was handled by the same mainframe that generated the endless food supply the chef had at his disposal with advanced nano technology). In a second, I knew just how to fire the torps to hit, and hit we did -- two massive fireball shot out of the hulls, and the ship was engulfed in flames!

"Direct hits", our android weapon officer cried. "But she's still moving as if nothing had happened", I protested. "She must've seen our torpedoes coming and raised her deflection shields!", Number One replied. "Worse yet, she seems to have an all-android crew", I added, "they're walking around on deck as if the flames weren't even there!". Damnit, damnit, damnit, this was not good. What would they throw at us next, armed patrol planes?

"Wait a minute, captain", came a voice from the torpedo room, and I jogged over there to see what was going on. It was the weapons dude. "I could try to reroute the currents from the torpedoes' fusion power plants. This will destabilize their Thomsen fields, causing heavy sub-ionic radiation and rendering them highly likely to hyper-atomic breakdown or premature detonation -- but it will increase their fire-power tremendously, and they should work just fine at close range!". Make it so", I replied curtly, and noted that the poor guy lost two morale points from my rude demeanour. Scheizze, I thought, it's just not fair, why does Kommandant Picard get away with being such an arrogant dog's ****?

Nevertheless, ten seconds later we were at Awesome Speed Forward, getting the destroyer back into view. We fired the torps, which overpowered the ship's shields and blew her up spectacularly, and that is how we came to sink our first Federation destroyer. Commanding a u-boat is a pain at times, but for all of its flaws, I must say I love WWII technology. Next I'll tell you all about our laser-guided HE rounds, which allow us to bombard targets from four kilometres away.

--Captain's log, date five seventeen, one nine four one, off the coast of England.

Grew tired of the stupid trolls, and wanted to bitch about the game in a more advanced way than spamming "SH5 sux" threads and derailing unrelated threads with one-liners.