[TEC] Mission Editor Discussion

[HanSolo78]

Hi!

Yesterday evening and today I worked a little bit with the ME and the harbour traffic and I experienced some interesting points... at least for the harbour Kiel.

1.Docked ships create an enourmous FPS hit! i.e. 15 added ships approximately 15-20 FPS

2.Until now I found no way to edit the harbour traffic layer... everytime I wanna change something in position, etc, I had to rework with an editor.
But I think this may only be for the moment.




So.. that´s it for now.

greetings
Han

[piri_reis]

The Nodes system is very powerful and flexible, it's a few clicks to create a one time or periodic convoy from point A to B. Because there are so many Path Nodes already created in the common layer, you can just create your ship group and tell them to go from Kiel to Bergen or Halifax to Alexandria.

I'm not definitely sure but I think the Spawn Nodes that are used for docked ships, interact with a close-by Generator Node. This way, if there is a convoy with the SchleswigHolstein included, that is going from Kiel to Danzig, the SchleswigHolstein will be spawned as a docked ship..
I've seen this happen a few times. So it looks like, the pool of ships include ships due to sail..

There is one problem I'm running across though. The ships are not following their waypoints very cleverly. This is the reason they are sailing like drunkards in ports. For example none can enter the kiel canal correctly. I just don't understand this, because they seem to be going ok once inside the canal...

I tried some single missions with ships to enter and exit the canal locks, they all find somewhere to run into and go into a forward/reverse cycle! Simple waypoint following seems broken, they turn too early for the next waypoint, or they skip it all together. (I have at least 1km between each waypoint..)

Must be missing something..

[digitizedsoul]

Piri -

Run said tests WHILE you have the AI Script debugger running. You should see verbose feedback on which autoroutines (scripts) the AI is using to exhbit the behavior.

For example they should be using a "collision avoidance" autoroutine if what you suspect is true.

I have experienced the same thing you are experiencing with my multiplayer map "Gibraltar Surface Run". The fleets are supposed to follow certain waypoints, but once they get radar contact on each other they completely ignore the waypoints and start exhibiting ridiculous behavior.

In my case both fleets turn away from eachother and start steaming at full speed in the oppisite directions, ignoring all waypoints. I am going to debug the AI on that later but just haven't had time.

Stupid bronchitis got me so sick i can barely work muchless mod.....

[digitizedsoul]

Originally Posted by piri_reis

I'm not definitely sure but I think the Spawn Nodes that are used for docked ships, interact with a close-by Generator Node. This way, if there is a convoy with the SchleswigHolstein included, that is going from Kiel to Danzig, the SchleswigHolstein will be spawned as a docked ship..
I've seen this happen a few times. So it looks like, the pool of ships include ships due to sail..

So does this mean that the docked ships won't join the respective convoy and get underway though? A docked ship does not move if I recall correctly.

The generator node spawns it? Or does the spawn node?

[piri_reis]

Originally Posted by digitizedsoul

So does this mean that the docked ships won't join the respective convoy and get underway though? A docked ship does not move if I recall correctly.

The generator node spawns it? Or does the spawn node?

Yes a Generator Node spawns groups of ships which have objectives(Reach or Patrol other node) The ships will just pop up in the game from nothingness and presumably start sailing to their next waypoint. (Connected with Path Nodes)
* There seems to be a bug with this too, If two different ship group spawn at the same time, they get stuck together..

A Spawn Node, seems to be used for docked ships. This draws from some ship pool which we don't know the details. But as I said, I've seen ships that are due to depart tomorrow, docked in the yards. Once the right time comes, they disappear from their Spawn Node spots, and pop up at their Generator Node location..

----

I've gone through all of the AI Scripts, hoping to catch what was throwing off their navigation...
Implementation seems logical enough, it should work..

[bigboywooly]

Originally Posted by piri_reis

The Nodes system is very powerful and flexible, it's a few clicks to create a one time or periodic convoy from point A to B. Because there are so many Path Nodes already created in the common layer, you can just create your ship group and tell them to go from Kiel to Bergen or Halifax to Alexandria.

I'm not definitely sure but I think the Spawn Nodes that are used for docked ships, interact with a close-by Generator Node. This way, if there is a convoy with the SchleswigHolstein included, that is going from Kiel to Danzig, the SchleswigHolstein will be spawned as a docked ship..
I've seen this happen a few times. So it looks like, the pool of ships include ships due to sail..

There is one problem I'm running across though. The ships are not following their waypoints very cleverly. This is the reason they are sailing like drunkards in ports. For example none can enter the kiel canal correctly. I just don't understand this, because they seem to be going ok once inside the canal...

I tried some single missions with ships to enter and exit the canal locks, they all find somewhere to run into and go into a forward/reverse cycle! Simple waypoint following seems broken, they turn too early for the next waypoint, or they skip it all together. (I have at least 1km between each waypoint..)

Must be missing something..

Thats the AI avoidance routine
They dont like narrow areas so no chance of one moving into\out the canal or to leave Wilhelmshaven
Waypoints seem ok but due to the above they will never enter an area like the canal - the canal is now wider than the SH3 modded version so they will sail it ok
Just not enter thru the schleuse

And yes you are correct re convoys
Makes it a breeze adding them though seems game already has most convoy routes included
Adding ships to a convoy is similar to SH3 and 4

[piri_reis]

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

Thats the AI avoidance routine
They dont like narrow areas so no chance of one moving into\out the canal or to leave Wilhelmshaven

That's weird because there is so much traffic already defined, that will sail through the canal.. How the devs overlooked that, I don't know

So maybe widening the entrance, getting rid of that quay in the middle, would help..

[bigboywooly]

Originally Posted by piri_reis

That's weird because there is so much traffic already defined, that will sail through the canal.. How the devs overlooked that, I don't know

So maybe widening the entrance, getting rid of that quay in the middle, would help..

Aye but as that really exists ( and should contain locks ) maybe best to stop any moving traffic short of that and start movement in the canal

[piri_reis]

Originally Posted by bigboywooly

Aye but as that really exists ( and should contain locks ) maybe best to stop any moving traffic short of that and start movement in the canal

Yes it's not a good solution, but what about all the traffic that are spawned by the Generator Node in Kiel or ports in the Baltic, that normally use the Canal to goto anywhere in the Nord Sea. I wonder if you're not in graphical viewing distance, the traffic goes through? There are periodic supply convoys and taskforce units that take the route to go on missions later in the war. I guess the AI avoidance doesn't execute and traffic goes through..

What a pity, it would be great to see traffic come into Kiel, turn into the canal and sail through it... the AI avoidance is a tad too cautious..

[HanSolo78]

I think most of the new habours are bigger than in Sh3 and if you have only about 10 ships from the random spawn nodes there are to few.. it looks very empty.
Interesting if we can investigate the spawn nodes further... because if we want to deploy historical units as in SH3/4 it is more difficult now because we could have some units twice which would not be very good.

What do you think?


To the Kiel canal locks... and the traffic... I could observe that a ship made it through the locks... but maybe it was just furtune.

greetings
Han

[bigboywooly]

Originally Posted by piri_reis

Yes it's not a good solution, but what about all the traffic that are spawned by the Generator Node in Kiel or ports in the Baltic, that normally use the Canal to goto anywhere in the Nord Sea. I wonder if you're not in graphical viewing distance, the traffic goes through? There are periodic supply convoys and taskforce units that take the route to go on missions later in the war. I guess the AI avoidance doesn't execute and traffic goes through..

What a pity, it would be great to see traffic come into Kiel, turn into the canal and sail through it... the AI avoidance is a tad too cautious..

Any traffic outside your render range will go through as it technically doesnt go through
If you get my meaning
If you are in the Atlantic and something leaves Kiel its so far away it will only " appear " ingame in the render distance which should be between 25 and 50 KM
Yes always been an issue the avoidance routine
Comes in handy for them avoiding you but trying to get moving traffic correct in harbours is a nightmare
Took me forever to get Lorient right for GWX due to the escort wanting to avoid the port and throw itself aground

Maybe one of the things in the AI which is moddable

[bigboywooly]

Originally Posted by HanSolo78

Hi!

Yesterday evening and today I worked a little bit with the ME and the harbour traffic and I experienced some interesting points... at least for the harbour Kiel.

1.Docked ships create an enourmous FPS hit! i.e. 15 added ships approximately 15-20 FPS

2.Until now I found no way to edit the harbour traffic layer... everytime I wanna change something in position, etc, I had to rework with an editor.
But I think this may only be for the moment.




So.. that´s it for now.

greetings
Han

Hi Hans
You will have to delete some of the spawn nodes to lessen docked units ( the NodeP ) in your photo
The game pulls ships to fill these nodes from the roster and seems pulls them inline with convoys\groups about to depart
So if you plan on adding historical docked units the old way then you will increase the amount of units in port unless you reduce the NodeP's

Hope that helps