Goodbye SH5...Back to SH3 + Mod

[Iron Budokan]

Originally Posted by Commie

I hear H.A.W.X. has better graphics than Il-2 Sturmovik, so that makes it a better flight sim right? Thief 3 had better graphics that 1 and 2 so that made it better? Deus Ex 2 looked better than Deus Ex, so was better? Bioshock looked better than System Shock 2 so was better?

Funny, wouldn't have thought that sub simmers were graphic whores.

For some people eye candy is all it takes. It appears this game is perfect for them on that score alone.

[jaxa]

It's difficult to compare SH3 with GWX to SH5. But playing SH5 I can find only one thing better than in SH3/GWX - graphic. SH3/GWX is the best u-boot simulation ever made. It will be fantastic to incorporate SH5 graphic to complex detailed SH3/GWX - succes guaranted. I don't like many things in SH5, but we have to give a chance - mods are created all time, I'm sure special mega mod for SH5 will change this game as GWX changed SH3 for another game.

[McHibbins]

Originally Posted by Iron Budokan

For some people eye candy is all it takes. It appears this game is perfect for them on that score alone.

Not all it takes but a big immersion factor i think. I voted SH5 for bad in another thread thinking of SH3 is still the better sim until Mods and patches are going to fix it.

[janh]

Originally Posted by Lt_Werner

But good graphics dont make necessarily a good game.

No, really? I would have guessed that... Curious: What would you prefer: a good game mechanics and feature with a 2-3 year graphics engine (SHIII), or a 2010 graphics engine with a simple game concept?

[FIREWALL]

If SH5 had shortcuts like SH3 &4 it would still be installed.

It got old fast for me walking all over the sub to DO anything.

When I press F4 I want to be on the bridge, P I'm in front of Peri and so on...

I just wanted the Option.

[141st_Alper]

Guys i have a question. I played sh2 and then sh4. Never tryed SH3 + GWX Mod. Should i try it before i continue playing SH5? Im already dont wanna play to much sh5 at the moment while it loaded with bugs and such things. Maybe i should try SH3 + GWX.

[The Enigma]

Originally Posted by 141st_Alper

Guys i have a question. I played sh2 and then sh4. Never tryed SH3 + GWX Mod. Should i try it before i continue playing SH5? Im already dont wanna play to much sh5 at the moment while it loaded with bugs and such things. Maybe i should try SH3 + GWX.

YEP, shelve sh5 for a while and start playing sh3 + gwx gold.
You won't regret it.

[Turbografx]

Originally Posted by capthelm

bye have fun on the dated graphics, they where once good.. sh3 lays in my used box now.

i am a firm believer of moving onward and upward...sh5 has the potential.

shaping up nicely with a lot of these mods.

A good game can transcend dated graphics. As Dryden wrote:

For you may palm upon us new for old:
All, as they say, that glitters, is not gold.

or Lydgate:

All is not golde that outward shewith bright

[Chromius]

I have played these sims since Gato, sublogic FS throughout the SH series and though this is pretty but its quite flawed, as the years go by I expected the SIMULATION elements to improve, smarter AI, detailed ship and sub damage with real effects, maybee ocean currents and real weather patterns, fluid dynamics, but not graphics over Sim. How about damage modeling more akin to IL-2 aircraft but for ships?

Funny I had the same arguments of the Graphics over true Simulation features at 1c on WoP vs BoB/Sow, WoP is pretty but not a true simulation for me and many others. Creating these games for the masses is taking us backwards, I mean what the hell, Papyrus made the last real racing sim how many years ago? Grid/Dirt 2 = Arcadish. Dragon Age Origins vs Baldurs Gate, once again graphics over a good rpg a genre gone backwards. I guess everything is catered to console gamers and people who like american idol = gene pool going the way of the movie "Idiocracy". (A must see movie, comedy cult classic)

SH5 appears to be an excellent graphics engine for the modders to turn into a decent sim, which is the only thing that gives me hope that SH5 will be a great Sim one day, sure theres a few new features but it appears that many other features were dropped. Lets not even bother to fix AI ships running aground into docks and blowing up, lets not fix stuck crew watch lets dumb down ship damage. We have a beautifully detailed sub, lets not bother to make a few more working gauges.

All in all I have been quite frustrated with it, after getting over the sub interior and graphics, and have gotten over the new TDC, after leaving a port and seeing my ships on fire in the harbours in the canal, then attacking a ship that in no way takes damage realistically, seeing the most crappy damage explosions (yes graphics, Im a hypocrite.), these are the silly things that ruin it. And I am tired of unfinished products, I swear it is getting worse not better, I dont pay for internet to use it to dl major bug patchs and scour 3-4 forums to see when my next game fixing patch will be released!!!!!!!!!! I mean subsim should be getting a kickback from Ubisoft, because you need mods here to make the game playable, how sad we have to come here for keybinds to support needed features and a damn compass, never mind the morale ect... I could have been happy with a 39-43 campaign and subs and 43 + being an addon if they had just got some of these simple things fixed (or not so simple) I would even prefer my modded SH4 w/RFB/RSRD ect... over this, never mind if you need a U-Boat SH3/GWX3 is probably better as an overall simulation. (#1 Immersion breaker, DRM and not being able to connect after you come home psyched to play.)

I just bought AoD to play till HOI3 is finally working, which I payed full price for when released and am still playing betas and reporting bugs on that but thats another story.

More coffee, good morning Vietnam

[dogfish]

Originally Posted by Chromius

Funny I had the same arguments of the Graphics over true Simulation features at 1c on WoP vs BoB/Sow, WoP is pretty but not a true simulation for me and many others. Creating these games for the masses is taking us backwards, I mean what the hell, Papyrus made the last real racing sim how many years ago? Grid/Dirt 2 = Arcadish. Dragon Age Origins vs Baldurs Gate, once again graphics over a good rpg a genre gone backwards. I guess everything is catered to console gamers and people who like american idol = gene pool going the way of the movie "Idiocracy". (A must see movie, comedy cult classic)

I completely agree with your whole post... Me and my brother refer to it as "consolization".

Dragon Age got so many good reviews, and it had a good story, but to me it was a huge step backwards from Baldurs Gate 2. I played as a Mage, and the spell system is so simplified. There are 12 or whatever different "schools" with 4 spells each, and many of them are so similar... Ice/Fire/Lightning Dart/Cone/Ball/Storm. Some of the design choices just seem so lazy and formulaic...

That's not why I'm replying here though... I am replying because you mentioned old Papyrus racing games... and I thought you might be interested to know that the man behind all of those is one of the main guys behind iracing.com... I signed up a couple of months ago, and it's good! Just got promoted from my rookie licenses to my D licenses on both oval and road! There are a few racing engines (rFactor, maybe netKar, I haven't tried them, going by what others say.. I have played GTR2 and it might be) that may be slightly more realistic, but the way iracing weaves in the whole multiplayer environment with it is fantastic.

There are no AI cars, all online with other people... and the way to get promoted is to drive safe and get a good safety rating, not finish first, so good incentives there. They even have a sanctioning body (FIRST) to oversee everything, where people can file protests against people driving maliciously or using profanity. Lots of pros are on there and say it's good and they use it to learn tracks and save money on tires... the pro oval series on iRacing is even an official NASCAR series! (Go to nascar.com and mouse over the standings button Dale Earnhardt Jr, my Carolina Club mate, unfortunately is down to #23 in the standings there but he missed the second week's race I think)

I'll stop there because it's starting to sound like an ad for them, but I have fun with it and many aren't aware of it unfortunately.. and you mentioned Papyrus games and it read like you might not be aware of iracing... also, a bit cheesy for me to include this, but they do have a referral program (I would still be making this same post if they didn't), so if you don't mind taking an extra minute or two to help someone else get some free credit, then please PM me for my email address. It will help my quest to be able to participate in the late model or truck series next season!

[Lt_Werner]

Originally Posted by janh

No, really? I would have guessed that... Curious: What would you prefer: a good game mechanics and feature with a 2-3 year graphics engine (SHIII), or a 2010 graphics engine with a simple game concept?

I am a hardcore simmer. I prefer game mechanics over graphics but thats a matter of personal taste. I am still confident that with patches and mods SH5 will turn into a decent game.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by jaxa

SH3/GWX is the best u-boot simulation ever made.

Not even close. GWX and NYGM both fix a lot of the problems, but not all can be fixed, and what everyone says sets GWX ahead of the others is...the graphics! So don't say it's the best or that gameplay is the reason, because...

Originally Posted by Lt_Werner

I am a hardcore simmer. I prefer game mechanics over graphics but thats a matter of personal taste. I am still confident that with patches and mods SH5 will turn into a decent game.

If that's really true then both of you should be playing Aces Of The Deep. The graphics are now very dated, but the gameplay is still unsurpassed. it even has wolfpacks!

[Juliano]

Aces Of The Deep

Aw man... that takes me back........... I was just a kid back then
I remember like it was yesterday.... staring at the map and holding the manual and learning about the game and u-boats.
When I played the game I realy felt like I WAS there in the sub.

I remember even learning about setting attacks like Otto Kretschmer.
The videos with the captains and crew talking how it was to be there where JUST GREAT.

Saddly, I don´t have the game anymore. Lost it way back when I moved out of town

[Exakt]

Originally Posted by Turbografx

A good game can transcend dated graphics. As Dryden wrote:



or Lydgate:

True, another game, which ain't a subsim, but rather a space "sim" is FreeSpace 2 and get it running with the Souce Code Project's FSOpen and you will see how a more than a decade old game engine can still compete with new ones...

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

...and what everyone says sets GWX ahead of the others is...the graphics!

Bite your tongue with the sweeping generalization man! As with ANY game and/or mod... the graphics are simply what gets noticed first. (Obviously... because you can see them.)

Normally I keep quiet about all the comparisons of this or that to GWX... but I gotta say I'm rather shocked seeing you post this kind of stuff. You know better than most, just how much work we put into the gynormous GWX campaign, physics, AI sensitivities, damage models, weapon damage vs. damage models etc etc etc.

Wow Steve. Totally underwhelming there.