Ubisoft Masterserver down? (merged)

[RSColonel_131st]

Originally Posted by John Channing

You're right.

HOW DARE Ubisoft try to prevent hackers from cracking the product so that people can steal it instead of paying for it. What was Ubisoft thinking?

Sorry John, but if you still think the main aim of OSP is to stop piracy then you haven't followed the discussions of the last month closely.

I'm not saying pirates have a right to attack those servers. But neither has Ubisoft the right to introduce spyware/controlware on our computers which only annoys paying customers while the pirates are already playing a cracked version.

The main aim of OSP and similar DRM methods is simple: Ban resale of games, sell DLC content trough the system, and monitor your customer base so you can target your marketing efforts better. Few of these DRM systems ever prevent piracy, so if that was the reason behind it, they should have been dropped by now.

Like I said, I'm not in favor of software pirates. All my games are legally bought. But if it takes a bunch of hacking cheapskates to show a bunch of corporate beancounters what happens when you violate basic customer rights I won't be sad about it.

[RSColonel_131st]

Originally Posted by Fincuan

Why not? Plenty of people have done it in the past and I don't see why SH5 would be an excemption. If the small customers can argument their case well enough they can get a return.

I'm really curious, but I never tried: How would that work on Amazon, for example? They do have a flat out "no software returns" policy.

[Fincuan]

Originally Posted by RSColonel_131st

I'm really curious, but I never tried: How would that work on Amazon, for example? They do have a flat out "no software returns" policy.

I wouldn't know about Amazon, but in general many countries' laws, including ours, stomp that kind of disclaimers straight away if there's anything wrong with the product. I don't see why they wouldn't give you a refund if you calmly and factually point out where and how the product lacks from what was advertised, if the difference is substantial. Whether or not this is the case with SH5 is another question.

I do know for a fact that many have managed to return a game they bought at Steam, and of course one they bought at the local gameshop. Especially the local shops generally want to keep their customers instead of arguing about it.

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by RSColonel_131st

Sorry John, but if you still think the main aim of OSP is to stop piracy then you haven't followed the discussions of the last month closely.

Au contraire... I have followed them very closely.

However I tend to give weight to opinions that are based on actual knowledge and fact not on speculation, rumour, mis-quotes and outright foolishness.

I have some sources inside Ubisoft (not the Devs) that I trust a great deal more than a bunch of people who hide behind made up internet names and spew forth irrational postings in just about every thread going.

But that's just me.

But ask yourself this question.

If you paid for the game knowing about DRM and you couldn't log on to the servers because of a hacker DOS attack... who is responsible for preventing you from logging on?

JCC

[ParaB]

Game still doesn't work for me. Can start the game, load a saved game but then the game quits back to main menu because of "problems with internet connection".

[MadDog09]

Now it woks again!

[John Channing]

Originally Posted by Fincuan

Did the people who bought he game give their money to a. Ubi or b. the hackers? That kind of decides who has the responsibility for the functionality of the service.

And now... the ubiquitous car analogy.

I buy a car from the dealership, complete with anti-theft devices.

Someone smashes the window and defeats the anti-theft device and steals my car.

Do I call the cops and have the dealership arrested?

JCC

[walsh2509]

They put DRM on to the game to stop Hackers , but can't stop Hackers attacking the servers ... if they did ?


As stated on another post , this is more to do with stopping resale and rental of the game than stopping hackers , which if you have a look on the net , they have failed to do as there are copies with 1.1 patch and crack.

[jwilliams]

Originally Posted by walsh2509

As stated on another post , this is more to do with stopping resale and rental of the game than stopping hackers , which if you have a look on the net , they have failed to do as there are copies with 1.1 patch and crack.

The OSP (DRM) is only about making more money for Ubisoft. that includes preventing piracy, resales and loans (of the games).
And as for the crack..... its not fully cracked... the pirated copies are only Demos as they do not fully function.

[RSColonel_131st]

Originally Posted by John Channing

I have some sources inside Ubisoft (not the Devs) that I trust a great deal more than a bunch of people who hide behind made up internet names and spew forth irrational postings in just about every thread going.

[SNIP]

But ask yourself this question.

If you paid for the game knowing about DRM and you couldn't log on to the servers because of a hacker DOS attack... who is responsible for preventing you from logging on?

JCC

As for the first part, I can assure you I too have friends in the industry, and I have my knowledge not sucked from my thumb.

For the question: If I buy a game with a DRM that relies on a flawless 100% available connection to an external server half around the world, I will have to accept that for any kind of reasons this will not function as advertised.

Heck, even my smallish my 50-User IT Network got hit with a serious virus attack last week. DDOS attacks on large game distribution networks or game server farms are simple par for the course, part of the environment of running an international multi-million dollar business.

It's not an act of god that prevents UBIs servers from functioning, it's a failure on their end to provide adequate protection for their infrastructure.

If you want to put the blame solely on the hackers that's of course your right, but who will you blame if their server is down for maintainance? Unexepected errors? Power outtages? Or if a trans-atlantic interconnect router somewhere acts up?

You can't technically design a 100% bulletproof system. And if you have to work with a game company budget (and not an Armed-Forces or International Financial Institution budget) you won't ever make 99.9% either if you want to be cost-effective.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by RSColonel_131st

The main aim of OSP and similar DRM methods is simple: Ban resale of games, sell DLC content trough the system, and monitor your customer base so you can target your marketing efforts better. Few of these DRM systems ever prevent piracy, so if that was the reason behind it, they should have been dropped by now.

That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but I don't share it. We both know that it is very likely that Ubisoft will drop the OSP after a period of time, just like they did for SH3 (SF) and SH4 (Secureom).

[razark]

Originally Posted by John Channing

And now... the ubiquitous car analogy.

I buy a car from the dealership, complete with anti-theft devices.

Someone smashes the window and defeats the anti-theft device and steals my car.

Do I call the cops and have the dealership arrested?

JCC

Yes, the folks doing the attack are to blame. I have no doubt about that. They deserve the majority.

However, Ubisoft must also accept some blame. They created this system. They should have been able to foresee that there could be some issue with it, preventing their customers from accessing and using the product they paid for.

Whether it's a DDoS attack, natural disaster, malicious employee, etc. They should have foreseen this. There should have been a backup set of servers located somewhere else to cover for this, or some other contingency plan. (I know that those servers would go down soon after in this situation, but it would cover other situations.) People paid money for a product, Ubisoft should honor their end of the deal, and make sure their customers are able to use the product.


In your analogy, the car hasn't been stolen. The car had a camera in it, and each time you wanted to turn the car on, you have to hold the receipt in front of it. Someone broke the screen at the dealership, and now they can't see your receipt, so they won't let you start the car.

[ridley]

Of course we are all assuming that the DOS attack is from those naughty pirates and their ilk.

When in reality given Ubisofts failure to make a working SH4 Multiplayer server even after several years, I think it is just as likely that the DOS attack is from those pesky customers trying to play the games that they bought over the weekend.

Ridley

[ndvsky]

OMG, again and again and again. That is the worst DRM ever! IT'S A TRAP!

[Ships-R-Us]

Originally Posted by John Channing

And now... the ubiquitous car analogy.

I buy a car from the dealership, complete with anti-theft devices.

Someone smashes the window and defeats the anti-theft device and steals my car.

Do I call the cops and have the dealership arrested?

JCC