Manual targeting is hard for me - Page 2

ryanglavin · 03-05-10, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maillemaker

OK, what is the "fixed wire method"?

nevermind, I see it.

Steve

To be honest, I don't usually use the fixed wire method, as getting the 3

minutes 15 seconds is easily attainable at ranges above 9000 M, so you can

angle yourself to get a perfect shot while attaining its speed. The issue I have

with the fixed wire method is I have to get speed then do an attack run,

instead of doing both at the same time.

BillCar · 03-05-10, 06:49 PM

As I mentioned above, you can do an attack run while doing the fixed wire method. I do it all the time. It does not matter what angle the ship is relative to you, so you can travel towards it from the front (almost head on), do fixed wire, and make your shot. If you need to turn more towards its track, well, hit hard rudder until you're roughly on the right track, and then fire. That adds a couple seconds, at most.

When I do it this way, it is rare for me to take more than a few seconds between getting the speed and firing the torpedoes. It is done in one run.

If approaching from behind, you're going to have to overhaul the target anyway to shoot from 90 degrees, so I don't see how that takes any more time, either. Briefly turn towards the ship. Take speed bearing(60 seconds or less, often times 20 or less). Turn the U-boat back to parallel course. Finish overhauling. Turn U-boat one last time. Fire. You're going to overhaul and close distance anyway, might as well get some immediate, up-to-date information while doing it.

Joe Bob · 03-05-10, 07:33 PM

The things that have made all the difference to me is the AOB tutorial mentioned earlier in the thread and making a Submarine attack course finder.
I shoot from such short ranges that distance doesn't seem to matter.

As far as speed goes if a convoy is slow then its going to be 6 or 7 knots. I put in 6.5 knots and do fine. Again the short range may help there.

It may not be perfect but I have found it very useful to be able to make snap shots like that, particularly in poor visibility. Printing that AOB tutorial as a reference doubled my accuracy.

maillemaker · 03-05-10, 08:43 PM

I have installed the hitman optics.

Question:

How do you toggle manual TDC data entry without going F6?

Steve

makman94 · 03-05-10, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maillemaker

So I started and ended my first campaign trying 100% realism.

I can't hit anything.

I had a perfect line-up on a ship. It was a granville freighter. I ID'd it, got it's range with stadiometer (it was reading about 1500m, according to map it was about 1200), and used stopwatch at 60 seconds to get speed. My sub was at a dead-stop so speed should have been accurate.

When I went to TDC screen, my torpedo track was aiming BEHIND the ship!

Does anyone know a good Youtube manual targeting video in English?

Steve

assuming that you did all right....
you 'lost' your target becuase granville freighter's length is wrong.(speed error) and also its mast (range error)

maillemaker · 03-05-10, 10:10 PM

OK, now I can hit stuff!

I am using the "fixed wire" method.

Here is how I do it.

1) Point periscope about 10 degrees in front of target. Press "=". This brings my sub's heading to where the periscope is pointing.

2) Once submarine has stopped turning, center up periscope on sub bearing 000. Your vertical crosshair should be in front of the target ship.

3) Wait for the target ship's nose to touch the vertical crosshair. While you are waiting, identify ship in recognition manual and determine ship length. When the target ship's nose touches the vertical crosshair, start stopwatch.

4) Wait for the target ship's stern to pass the vertical crosshair. Stop stopwatch.

5) Use this forumula to determine speed:

(1.852 * ship length in meters) / time in seconds

6) Go to the TDC.

7) Turn on manual data entry.

8) Set Angle on the Bow (AoB) to 90 degrees starboard or port, depending on whether you are on the starboard or port side of the target ship. It does not matter what your actual AoB is.

9) Dial in the target ship's speed.

10) Turn off manual data entry on the TDC.

11) Return to periscope view. Turn the periscope until the gyroscope angle is 000.

12) Wait for target ship to travel across crosshairs. When ship is in vertical crosshair, fire torpedo!

Note: If you don't want to wait for the ship to hit the vertical crosshair, you can turn the sub left or right to speed up the process. It is advisible not to fire until your sub has stopped turning.

WHAT I HAVE LEARNED.

First, The simulation is a lot harder this way!

Second, the simulation becomes much more an exercise of pointing your submarine instead of pointing your periscope.

Whoever changed my thread title, manual targeting still sucks!

Steve

BillCar · 03-06-10, 12:06 AM

Great stuff! You'll have a lot of fun with this.

For Hitman's optics, you need to hit CTRL + T to lock and unlock the TDC. I forgot to mention that.

Good hunting!

Pisces · 03-06-10, 03:40 AM

Maillemaker:

Congratulations on getting better at this.

But at step 8 it actually does matter what the real AOB is. If you didn't turn back to a course that is perpendicular to the tartget course you need to set to the AOB as seen at that point. Only set the AOB dial when you actually are facing a direction that will get an AOB of 90 when the target passes the periscope view. You may have succeded because the actual AOB was not that much different but other situations might have resulted in a miss.

At step 5 the number should really be 1.944 or for simplicity sake 2. The number 1.852 is not correct. Close enough, but not correct.

vergol · 03-06-10, 04:42 AM

When in doubt, fire a spread!

vergol · 03-06-10, 05:01 AM

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but don't forget to open the tube doors before you press the fire button. That one second is a really big deal at longer ranges.

oldstyle · 03-06-10, 09:13 AM

Something that I don't understand with the fixed wire method : Why you have to put your sub at bearing 000 to do it ? If you put only your scope at 000 whatever the position of your sub, it doesn't work as well ?
I really don't understand the importance of the position of the sub in this case : what the scope show you is the same if the bearing of the sub is 000 or other, if you're stopped of course ! Perhaps this last detail is the ansewer of my question ?

maillemaker · 03-06-10, 09:16 AM

Quote:

But at step 8 it actually does matter what the real AOB is. If you didn't turn back to a course that is perpendicular to the tartget course you need to set to the AOB as seen at that point. Only set the AOB dial when you actually are facing a direction that will get an AOB of 90 when the target passes the periscope view. You may have succeded because the actual AOB was not that much different but other situations might have resulted in a miss.

Ahah! I see now. I always attack from perpendicular to target heading so I did not notice.

I guess what I was thinking is that while you "shoot the line" it does not matter what the AOB is.

I like this fixed wire method. You can get the target speed in about 30 seconds, all while moving in on your target. Once you have the range, just turn left or right 20 degrees and wait for them to cross your crosshairs!

Steve

BillCar · 03-06-10, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldstyle

I really don't understand the importance of the position of the sub in this case : what the scope show you is the same if the bearing of the sub is 000 or other, if you're stopped of course ! Perhaps this last detail is the ansewer of my question ?

Yes, you can do it with the scope at any position if you are stopped. But most people are going to be moving, and I don't like to stop my sub while moving in on a target. To point the scope at 000 or 180 negates the movement of your own sub by keeping everything on the same axis.

@ maillemaker:

Yep, that is indeed the beauty of the fixed wire/ fixed line method!

maillemaker · 03-06-10, 02:20 PM

How does this all work when firing the stern tubes?

Steve

Dissaray · 03-06-10, 02:56 PM

For fireing a stern shot the steps are all basicaly the same but you line up the shot so the target is behind you rather then in front of you. The AOB reading is for the oposite side of the ship when conducting convoy attacks from what it would be for the forward tubes, but only when attacking from within the convoy.

03-05-10, 06:49 PM	#17
BillCar Engineer Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 203 Downloads: 73 Uploads: 0	As I mentioned above, you can do an attack run while doing the fixed wire method. I do it all the time. It does not matter what angle the ship is relative to you, so you can travel towards it from the front (almost head on), do fixed wire, and make your shot. If you need to turn more towards its track, well, hit hard rudder until you're roughly on the right track, and then fire. That adds a couple seconds, at most. When I do it this way, it is rare for me to take more than a few seconds between getting the speed and firing the torpedoes. It is done in one run. If approaching from behind, you're going to have to overhaul the target anyway to shoot from 90 degrees, so I don't see how that takes any more time, either. Briefly turn towards the ship. Take speed bearing(60 seconds or less, often times 20 or less). Turn the U-boat back to parallel course. Finish overhauling. Turn U-boat one last time. Fire. You're going to overhaul and close distance anyway, might as well get some immediate, up-to-date information while doing it. __________________ SH3: 100% Realism, DID, GWX 3.0 + SH3 Commander 3.2 + HITMAN'S BETA GUI FOR GWX 3.0 (in a word: AMAZING) + FM Interiors + SH5 Water + Thomsen's Sound Pack 3.2 + BillCar's Sonar Ping http://tinyurl.com/billcarpingmod SH4: 100% Realism, DID, RFB / TMO1.9+RSRDC / OM+OMEGU.

03-06-10, 12:06 AM	#22
BillCar Engineer Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 203 Downloads: 73 Uploads: 0	Great stuff! You'll have a lot of fun with this. For Hitman's optics, you need to hit CTRL + T to lock and unlock the TDC. I forgot to mention that. Good hunting! __________________ SH3: 100% Realism, DID, GWX 3.0 + SH3 Commander 3.2 + HITMAN'S BETA GUI FOR GWX 3.0 (in a word: AMAZING) + FM Interiors + SH5 Water + Thomsen's Sound Pack 3.2 + BillCar's Sonar Ping http://tinyurl.com/billcarpingmod SH4: 100% Realism, DID, RFB / TMO1.9+RSRDC / OM+OMEGU.

03-06-10, 03:40 AM	#23
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	Maillemaker: Congratulations on getting better at this. But at step 8 it actually does matter what the real AOB is. If you didn't turn back to a course that is perpendicular to the tartget course you need to set to the AOB as seen at that point. Only set the AOB dial when you actually are facing a direction that will get an AOB of 90 when the target passes the periscope view. You may have succeded because the actual AOB was not that much different but other situations might have resulted in a miss. At step 5 the number should really be 1.944 or for simplicity sake 2. The number 1.852 is not correct. Close enough, but not correct. __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

03-05-10, 07:33 PM	#18
Joe Bob Watch Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 29 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	The things that have made all the difference to me is the AOB tutorial mentioned earlier in the thread and making a Submarine attack course finder. I shoot from such short ranges that distance doesn't seem to matter. As far as speed goes if a convoy is slow then its going to be 6 or 7 knots. I put in 6.5 knots and do fine. Again the short range may help there. It may not be perfect but I have found it very useful to be able to make snap shots like that, particularly in poor visibility. Printing that AOB tutorial as a reference doubled my accuracy.

03-05-10, 08:43 PM	#19
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	I have installed the hitman optics. Question: How do you toggle manual TDC data entry without going F6? Steve

03-05-10, 10:10 PM	#21
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	OK, now I can hit stuff! I am using the "fixed wire" method. Here is how I do it. 1) Point periscope about 10 degrees in front of target. Press "=". This brings my sub's heading to where the periscope is pointing. 2) Once submarine has stopped turning, center up periscope on sub bearing 000. Your vertical crosshair should be in front of the target ship. 3) Wait for the target ship's nose to touch the vertical crosshair. While you are waiting, identify ship in recognition manual and determine ship length. When the target ship's nose touches the vertical crosshair, start stopwatch. 4) Wait for the target ship's stern to pass the vertical crosshair. Stop stopwatch. 5) Use this forumula to determine speed: (1.852 * ship length in meters) / time in seconds 6) Go to the TDC. 7) Turn on manual data entry. 8) Set Angle on the Bow (AoB) to 90 degrees starboard or port, depending on whether you are on the starboard or port side of the target ship. It does not matter what your actual AoB is. 9) Dial in the target ship's speed. 10) Turn off manual data entry on the TDC. 11) Return to periscope view. Turn the periscope until the gyroscope angle is 000. 12) Wait for target ship to travel across crosshairs. When ship is in vertical crosshair, fire torpedo! Note: If you don't want to wait for the ship to hit the vertical crosshair, you can turn the sub left or right to speed up the process. It is advisible not to fire until your sub has stopped turning. WHAT I HAVE LEARNED. First, The simulation is a lot harder this way! Second, the simulation becomes much more an exercise of pointing your submarine instead of pointing your periscope. Whoever changed my thread title, manual targeting still sucks! Steve

03-06-10, 04:42 AM	#24
vergol Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 121 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	When in doubt, fire a spread!

03-06-10, 05:01 AM	#25
vergol Machinist's Mate Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 121 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 0	Not sure if this has been mentioned, but don't forget to open the tube doors before you press the fire button. That one second is a really big deal at longer ranges.

03-06-10, 09:13 AM	#26
oldstyle Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Montreuil, France Posts: 12 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Something that I don't understand with the fixed wire method : Why you have to put your sub at bearing 000 to do it ? If you put only your scope at 000 whatever the position of your sub, it doesn't work as well ? I really don't understand the importance of the position of the sub in this case : what the scope show you is the same if the bearing of the sub is 000 or other, if you're stopped of course ! Perhaps this last detail is the ansewer of my question ?

03-06-10, 02:20 PM	#29
maillemaker Sea Lord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,639 Downloads: 75 Uploads: 0	How does this all work when firing the stern tubes? Steve

03-06-10, 02:56 PM	#30
Dissaray 中国水兵 Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 280 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	For fireing a stern shot the steps are all basicaly the same but you line up the shot so the target is behind you rather then in front of you. The AOB reading is for the oposite side of the ship when conducting convoy attacks from what it would be for the forward tubes, but only when attacking from within the convoy.