Is it really that bad?

03-04-10, 04:42 AM

There seem to be alot of negative threads popping up.
Is SH5 really that bad?
I agree with the other posters that claim the mods will fix it?
I think it's a disgrace and an insult to the modders that the devs think they will fix it.
How about give the modders the profits from the sales and let them fix it.
The devs should hang their heads in shame as they obviously know that the modders have real jobs that I am sure they do to thir best of their abilities and then spend their own time adding to the game.
Not trying to fix it.
Please tell me that it wasn't the SH4 devs that made this.
If it was why didn't they just add to SH4 instead if trying to rewrite it.

R-T-B · 03-04-10, 04:44 AM

Honestly, even out of the box, I rather like it.

Yes it has problems, yes it is different. But is it bad? I really don't think so.

There was a poll a while back that showed that most people rated it "good with issues" or something such. I think those who absolutely hate it are just a vocal minority, no offense intended.

03-04-10, 04:47 AM

Thanks for the reply.
Now to wait for amazon to deliver the CE.

R-T-B · 03-04-10, 04:50 AM

Just be sure and poke through the available mods before installing it. Some of them (even in this early state) help alot.

For example, not to toot my own horn, but if you don't install my morale mod, I can gurantee you that you will be frustrated with the morale system. It's flat out broken right now, but turning it off yields an enjoyable game.

03-04-10, 04:54 AM

Thanks I will be installing your mod on that recommendation alone.
Much appreciated.
It's modders like yourself that really make these games.
Your hard work is always appreciated.

Church SUBSIM · 03-04-10, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-T-B

Just be sure and poke through the available mods before installing it. Some of them (even in this early state) help alot.

For example, not to toot my own horn, but if you don't install my morale mod, I can gurantee you that you will be frustrated with the morale system. It's flat out broken right now, but turning it off yields an enjoyable game.

This is the first I have heard of this mod (morale) but if it works ... THANK YOU!

jwilliams · 03-04-10, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-T-B

Honestly, even out of the box, I rather like it.

Yes it has problems, yes it is different. But is it bad? I really don't think so.

There was a poll a while back that showed that most people rated it "good with issues" or something such. I think those who absolutely hate it are just a vocal minority, no offense intended.

From reading these threads etc.

i'd say its more like :-

10% love it
80% ??????? (think what have they done to SH5)
10% hate it

100% Hope modders will fix it.

But i dont think we should be expecting modders to fix it. The game should have been released in a finished state.

all the modders should be doing is adding to the game. not fixing it.

R-T-B · 03-04-10, 05:07 AM

While I agree it should have been released in a better state, I still find it enjoyable and it is an excellent modding platform (I speak from experience working with it thus far, I plan on unveiling many projects in the days ahead.

)

Also, I trust the old poll thread far more than the massive globs of posts coming out of the woodwork, just saying...

ryuzu · 03-04-10, 07:37 AM

Well figured I'd weigh in (get it!) now I've played it a bit. Still early days so this is really initial impressions after 1 patrol.

Basically, most of the bugs you've read here are accurate. Yes the guys rotate back and forth while talking (at least for me they do), yes the morale of your guys seems to go to 0 when you reload a save and that *seems* to stop them doing things like manning guns etc etc.

Graphics bugs are present, but don't really worry me since the graphics are perfectly good overall.

I think the problem from the community viewpoint is twofold. Firstly, there seem to be a lot of people wearing rose tinted glasses when it comes to SH3 - yes SH3 was decent eventually but that was after 6 months of patches and several years of modding. SH3 out of the box wasn't as good as everyone hoped and I'd argue that while modding made it much better, it still wasn't the subsim we'd all like to see.

Secondly, this isn't SH3. SH3 + mods exist and if it's that kind of game you want then SH3 is already here. With SH5 they've tried to do something different - after all, we've already been in the Battle of the Atlantic umpteen times so the devs really need to try and do something different.

What they've tried to do is simulate the crew more than in previous titles - and as a result the simulation of the technical aspects of the boat itself is somewhat degraded.

So, while you may not be able to spin the TDC dials, you do on the other hand, get to "call out" the data (essentially the same stuff) to the XO who spins the dials.

It's a different emphasis and whether you like that or not is a personal matter.

While that seems to be where the devs are going with this version, it is still fair to say the game is some way short of being complete though. As others have mentioned the interaction with the crew is stilted and in some instances worse than SH4 or even 3 which is disappointing. It's fine to remove the technical button pushing bits if your virtual crew is doing that for you, but you still have to be able to instruct the crew and many options seem be missing - little things like specific heading, speed and depth instructions aren't as easy to get at as they should be.

However, I have already felt something of a connection to this virtual crew - which I never really got from 3 or 4.

So overall I'd just say SH5 is different. The ideal subsim seems to be an amalgamation of the features of SH3, 4 and now 5 but we still don't have that...

r.

Decoman · 03-04-10, 08:33 AM

Moving through the submarine is very slick and nice. Holding down shift key while moving, allow for running.

But the lady-shoe-tap sound effect has to go

One easy thing the devs could do, was to create alot of dialogue for the crew. So that no dialogue appeared twice. It would be easy to write dialogue, where you could even write variants to any single expression. E.g "Hello" could also be "Hi" or "Greetings" in the real world.

malkuth74 · 03-04-10, 10:05 AM

I would actually say that no its not that bad.. But once you realise that the enemy Destroyers do nothing to stop you... Then you tell yourself... Wow.

LOL.

Sonarman · 03-04-10, 10:15 AM

Couldn't this be because you are very early in the first days of the war, they may get better as the campaign goes along?

malkuth74 · 03-04-10, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonarman

Couldn't this be because you are very early in the first days of the war, they may get better as the campaign goes along?

Yeah I hope your right... But you would think that when something goes BOOM.. They would at least attempt to check it out.

Instead they go straigt, don't change course and don't change speed.

If thats an early Green war crew... Then this war is not going to last too long.

Eldritch · 03-04-10, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malkuth74

I would actually say that no its not that bad.. But once you realise that the enemy Destroyers do nothing to stop you... Then you tell yourself... Wow.

LOL.

I wish someone could have told the 6 destroyers that pinged and depthcharged me for 6 hours straight when I tried to get away from a successful hit at a convoy that approached one of the british ports. Those guys are REALLY persistent sometimes (and if you think 6 hours was a short timespan, then I can tell you they stopped because they bloody well sunk me).

Anyway, regarding the game in my experience: It's a blast. The only things that have lessened my enthusiasm for the fifth installment is the morale bug and the utterly wonky Auto-TDC/Manual-TDC that seems to forget that I've turned off map contacts etc, but these two problems are bound to be fixed.

Oh, and the campaign missions are weird too but not a showstopper. I mean, sink 100.000 tonnes of ships before march 1940? Really? That's a lot... I'd be just as happy to get home safely after a patrol and not worry about set dates where I HAVE to complete things.

Agustus · 03-04-10, 11:28 AM

I put about 5 hours into it and consider the game unplayable. Have already uninstalled it and will give it another shot in 6 months when patches/mods show up.

Just too many bugs (the morale bug being the worst), the clunkiest of interfaces, lack of control like you had in previous SH's, etc. Unlike some of these other posters who are playing their way through all of that in an effort to get some enjoyment out of the game, I won't.

No one wanted this to be a great game more than me. But frankly, it's a dog right now. I can't recommend it to anyone until many things get fixed.

03-04-10, 04:42 AM	#1
Barso Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Is it really that bad? There seem to be alot of negative threads popping up. Is SH5 really that bad? I agree with the other posters that claim the mods will fix it? I think it's a disgrace and an insult to the modders that the devs think they will fix it. How about give the modders the profits from the sales and let them fix it. The devs should hang their heads in shame as they obviously know that the modders have real jobs that I am sure they do to thir best of their abilities and then spend their own time adding to the game. Not trying to fix it. Please tell me that it wasn't the SH4 devs that made this. If it was why didn't they just add to SH4 instead if trying to rewrite it.

03-04-10, 10:05 AM	#11
malkuth74 Sonar Guy Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 377 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	I would actually say that no its not that bad.. But once you realise that the enemy Destroyers do nothing to stop you... Then you tell yourself... Wow. LOL. __________________

03-04-10, 10:15 AM	#12
Sonarman The Old Man Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ayr,Scotland,UK Posts: 1,392 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 0	Couldn't this be because you are very early in the first days of the war, they may get better as the campaign goes along? __________________ "The action is simulated...the excitement is real!" Microprose Simulation Software.

03-04-10, 04:44 AM	#2
R-T-B Sparky Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 150 Downloads: 324 Uploads: 5	Honestly, even out of the box, I rather like it. Yes it has problems, yes it is different. But is it bad? I really don't think so. There was a poll a while back that showed that most people rated it "good with issues" or something such. I think those who absolutely hate it are just a vocal minority, no offense intended.

03-04-10, 04:47 AM	#3
Barso Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Thanks for the reply. Now to wait for amazon to deliver the CE.

03-04-10, 04:50 AM	#4
R-T-B Sparky Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 150 Downloads: 324 Uploads: 5	Just be sure and poke through the available mods before installing it. Some of them (even in this early state) help alot. For example, not to toot my own horn, but if you don't install my morale mod, I can gurantee you that you will be frustrated with the morale system. It's flat out broken right now, but turning it off yields an enjoyable game.

03-04-10, 04:54 AM	#5
Barso Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Thanks I will be installing your mod on that recommendation alone. Much appreciated. It's modders like yourself that really make these games. Your hard work is always appreciated.

03-04-10, 05:07 AM	#8
R-T-B Sparky Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 150 Downloads: 324 Uploads: 5	While I agree it should have been released in a better state, I still find it enjoyable and it is an excellent modding platform (I speak from experience working with it thus far, I plan on unveiling many projects in the days ahead. ) Also, I trust the old poll thread far more than the massive globs of posts coming out of the woodwork, just saying...

03-04-10, 07:37 AM	#9
ryuzu Navy Dude Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 171 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	Well figured I'd weigh in (get it!) now I've played it a bit. Still early days so this is really initial impressions after 1 patrol. Basically, most of the bugs you've read here are accurate. Yes the guys rotate back and forth while talking (at least for me they do), yes the morale of your guys seems to go to 0 when you reload a save and that seems to stop them doing things like manning guns etc etc. Graphics bugs are present, but don't really worry me since the graphics are perfectly good overall. I think the problem from the community viewpoint is twofold. Firstly, there seem to be a lot of people wearing rose tinted glasses when it comes to SH3 - yes SH3 was decent eventually but that was after 6 months of patches and several years of modding. SH3 out of the box wasn't as good as everyone hoped and I'd argue that while modding made it much better, it still wasn't the subsim we'd all like to see. Secondly, this isn't SH3. SH3 + mods exist and if it's that kind of game you want then SH3 is already here. With SH5 they've tried to do something different - after all, we've already been in the Battle of the Atlantic umpteen times so the devs really need to try and do something different. What they've tried to do is simulate the crew more than in previous titles - and as a result the simulation of the technical aspects of the boat itself is somewhat degraded. So, while you may not be able to spin the TDC dials, you do on the other hand, get to "call out" the data (essentially the same stuff) to the XO who spins the dials. It's a different emphasis and whether you like that or not is a personal matter. While that seems to be where the devs are going with this version, it is still fair to say the game is some way short of being complete though. As others have mentioned the interaction with the crew is stilted and in some instances worse than SH4 or even 3 which is disappointing. It's fine to remove the technical button pushing bits if your virtual crew is doing that for you, but you still have to be able to instruct the crew and many options seem be missing - little things like specific heading, speed and depth instructions aren't as easy to get at as they should be. However, I have already felt something of a connection to this virtual crew - which I never really got from 3 or 4. So overall I'd just say SH5 is different. The ideal subsim seems to be an amalgamation of the features of SH3, 4 and now 5 but we still don't have that... r.

03-04-10, 08:33 AM	#10
Decoman Frogman Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 306 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	Moving through the submarine is very slick and nice. Holding down shift key while moving, allow for running. But the lady-shoe-tap sound effect has to go One easy thing the devs could do, was to create alot of dialogue for the crew. So that no dialogue appeared twice. It would be easy to write dialogue, where you could even write variants to any single expression. E.g "Hello" could also be "Hi" or "Greetings" in the real world.

03-04-10, 11:28 AM	#15
Agustus Swabbie Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 13 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I put about 5 hours into it and consider the game unplayable. Have already uninstalled it and will give it another shot in 6 months when patches/mods show up. Just too many bugs (the morale bug being the worst), the clunkiest of interfaces, lack of control like you had in previous SH's, etc. Unlike some of these other posters who are playing their way through all of that in an effort to get some enjoyment out of the game, I won't. No one wanted this to be a great game more than me. But frankly, it's a dog right now. I can't recommend it to anyone until many things get fixed.