I give up.

Steeltrap · 03-04-10, 01:13 AM

I, for one, have never understood why you can't simply hit a command (let's say 'N') whereupon a box pops up and you input 3 digits for the course you want.

'N'
'135'
response = new course 135; coming to 135 or whatever you like.

How hard can it be? Isn't it what all the books and real ex-navy guys keep saying what happens??

It's just symptomatic of the game industry, I'm afraid. It's ironic that the mindblowing abilities of PCs compared with 10 years ago are coinciding with incredibly poorly written, poorly tested dross as games.

CCIP · 03-04-10, 01:18 AM

The fact is that well... someone, somewhere, imagined that people like clicking shiny buttons for very generic orders.

Clearly, that's resulted in an outcome that players of a more serious breed can't approve of.

I think the game's design went way, way too far in pushing the whole "you are the captain, you don't have your hands on the dials" point, forgetting one other, EXTREMELY important fact about a captain: yes your hands are off the buttons, but as the captain you NEED to be precisely aware of the situation and have a chance to respond to it with precise orders. Especially on the awareness front, the way the game is presented just won't cut it. Also as the captain, you NEED to have a way to make sure that your crew gets things done, NOW. Without having to go up in their face and "dialogue" them or pat them on the bottom.

Unless, of course, you play with external camera, map contacts and auto aim... then you don't need that precision and timely-ness and can leisurely see everything from your mini-map perch.

Instant, crucial situation info (from course to nearest contact) needs to be back within a click's or keystroke's reach. Same goes for virtually all orders that would be issued by voice command or mechanical input on a real military unit.

ddrgn · 03-04-10, 01:21 AM

Don't give up yet my friends.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...80#post1291980

Highbury · 03-04-10, 01:23 AM

Thanks for the heads up! Heading off to get it.

Sgtmonkeynads · 03-04-10, 01:38 AM

Dam straight !

They give the entire life story of you crew, but the iinstructions on how to use your main weapon is " Good aim - Bad Aim" along with the photo....

OH, how do you know how many rounds you have left, without going down and checking for yourself.
As Captain I do not want to go count shells in the middle of a fire fight inorder to know if I have enough ammo to finish the fight or not.

Laffertytig · 03-04-10, 02:51 AM

another good, though disapointing to read post. this game is really beginnin to sound horrible and im so glad i waited a few days before pullin the trigger on it.

the only pluses i can glean from all these posts are that it looks real nice and the campaign is a step forward from previous versions.

i have to ask though, why didnt they just keep the core UI from SH3 or SH4 and then add most of this new stuff on top of it? that wouldve kept everyone happy.

jwilliams · 03-04-10, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laffertytig

i have to ask though, why didnt they just keep the core UI from SH3 or SH4 and then add most of this new stuff on top of it? that wouldve kept everyone happy.

Yep i agree. and i think thats what everyone wanted them to do. I know for a fact that, that is what i wanted. But no they had to totally change it.
And then, they didnt even finish it.

SH3 GWX, with new graphics, and improved AI,improved phisics, and 1st person camera view = everyone Happy. (Well ME anyway).

sergei · 03-04-10, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laffertytig

another good, though disapointing to read post. this game is really beginnin to sound horrible and im so glad i waited a few days before pullin the trigger on it.

the only pluses i can glean from all these posts are that it looks real nice and the campaign is a step forward from previous versions.

i have to ask though, why didnt they just keep the core UI from SH3 or SH4 and then add most of this new stuff on top of it? that wouldve kept everyone happy.

Yeah you are right. It looks real nice, and the campaign seems to work quite well (you basically chose an area of operations for 6 months or so, then move on).
But yes, there is a lot of functionality missing from the game.
I have the game, so have decided to try and tweak it to make it better, but honestly, I am not sure I could in all honesty recommend someone else buy the game.

Gezoes · 03-04-10, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laffertytig

...i have to ask though, why didnt they just keep the core UI from SH3 or SH4 and then add most of this new stuff on top of it? that wouldve kept everyone happy.

Because dev's nowadays seem almost purely motivated to take out exactly the things that people like and/or define a series. Maybe it's time some split off like happened with MOH/COD.

No silent running because I have no moral points? C'mon... bargain bin.

Steeltrap · 03-04-10, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

....forgetting one other, EXTREMELY important fact about a captain: yes your hands are off the buttons, but as the captain you NEED to be precisely aware of the situation and have a chance to respond to it with precise orders. Especially on the awareness front, the way the game is presented just won't cut it. Also as the captain, you NEED to have a way to make sure that your crew gets things done, NOW. Without having to go up in their face and "dialogue" them or pat them on the bottom.

Instant, crucial situation info (from course to nearest contact) needs to be back within a click's or keystroke's reach. Same goes for virtually all orders that would be issued by voice command or mechanical input on a real military unit.

Completely agree.

sergei · 03-04-10, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCIP

I think the game's design went way, way too far in pushing the whole "you are the captain, you don't have your hands on the dials" point, forgetting one other, EXTREMELY important fact about a captain: yes your hands are off the buttons, but as the captain you NEED to be precisely aware of the situation and have a chance to respond to it with precise orders

Yep. Agreed 1000%. This seems to be the major point that they have misunderstood.
OK you're the captain, you don't need to know stuff like that.
Then the S\%%% hits the fan.
When that happens it turns out that it is really vital that the captain knows all that stuff.

Ping Jockey · 03-04-10, 01:40 PM

UBISOFT has to be embarrassed about SH5!! What a joke it is.

kapitan_zur_see · 03-04-10, 03:33 PM

I find it especially funny and ironic that this game, though supposed to be more friendly to casual gamer, is actually more difficult to play even for the die hard simmers like us than previous SH! because of all this "guess and see" stuffs and failing reduced-but-over-complicated interface

And they actually succeeded to make it even more plagued by lack of documentation than before lol! The tutorial is a farce that will let the casual gamer basically wondering what to do and how to do just about 80% of the game... It just teach how to move your avatar and that's it, TDC whilst used in this tutorial, is an "I order you to you use it NOW!"... It's nowhere explained how it works, so I can't imagine the effect on someone who never heard of TDC before...
As the game is right out of the box, it's nearly impossible for a non-subsimmer to sort it out. They'll quickly quit trying

OttoSchuhart · 03-04-10, 04:17 PM

This morale thing really remains a mystery to me. I got the idea that you should care for your crew and take them to the next level, no problem at all. But where is the point when the XO denies to order silent running in a critical and life-threatening situation because he's out of morale points???

So realistic. I know there's already a mod to get rid of these constraints, but what I don't quite understand is how UBI could even think of implementing this "feature"?

Jimbuna · 03-04-10, 04:19 PM

A good informative original post Mark

03-04-10, 01:18 AM	#2
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	The fact is that well... someone, somewhere, imagined that people like clicking shiny buttons for very generic orders. Clearly, that's resulted in an outcome that players of a more serious breed can't approve of. I think the game's design went way, way too far in pushing the whole "you are the captain, you don't have your hands on the dials" point, forgetting one other, EXTREMELY important fact about a captain: yes your hands are off the buttons, but as the captain you NEED to be precisely aware of the situation and have a chance to respond to it with precise orders. Especially on the awareness front, the way the game is presented just won't cut it. Also as the captain, you NEED to have a way to make sure that your crew gets things done, NOW. Without having to go up in their face and "dialogue" them or pat them on the bottom. Unless, of course, you play with external camera, map contacts and auto aim... then you don't need that precision and timely-ness and can leisurely see everything from your mini-map perch. Instant, crucial situation info (from course to nearest contact) needs to be back within a click's or keystroke's reach. Same goes for virtually all orders that would be issued by voice command or mechanical input on a real military unit. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

03-04-10, 01:21 AM	#3
ddrgn Korvettenkapitän Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 918 Downloads: 362 Uploads: 30	Don't give up yet my friends. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...80#post1291980 __________________ ddrgn mods: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=217261

03-04-10, 01:38 AM	#5
Sgtmonkeynads Ships Secretary Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: MilesCity Montana Posts: 583 Downloads: 614 Uploads: 0	Dam straight ! They give the entire life story of you crew, but the iinstructions on how to use your main weapon is " Good aim - Bad Aim" along with the photo.... OH, how do you know how many rounds you have left, without going down and checking for yourself. As Captain I do not want to go count shells in the middle of a fire fight inorder to know if I have enough ammo to finish the fight or not. __________________ Just help someone.....it makes a difference

03-04-10, 01:40 PM	#12
Ping Jockey Medic Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 159 Downloads: 294 Uploads: 0	UBISOFT has to be embarrassed about SH5!! What a joke it is. __________________ I joined the U S Navy in 1964. Saw the world and a lot more.

03-04-10, 03:33 PM	#13
kapitan_zur_see Commodore Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: France Posts: 614 Downloads: 60 Uploads: 0	I find it especially funny and ironic that this game, though supposed to be more friendly to casual gamer, is actually more difficult to play even for the die hard simmers like us than previous SH! because of all this "guess and see" stuffs and failing reduced-but-over-complicated interface And they actually succeeded to make it even more plagued by lack of documentation than before lol! The tutorial is a farce that will let the casual gamer basically wondering what to do and how to do just about 80% of the game... It just teach how to move your avatar and that's it, TDC whilst used in this tutorial, is an "I order you to you use it NOW!"... It's nowhere explained how it works, so I can't imagine the effect on someone who never heard of TDC before... As the game is right out of the box, it's nearly impossible for a non-subsimmer to sort it out. They'll quickly quit trying __________________

03-04-10, 01:13 AM	#1
Steeltrap Grey Wolf Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 818 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I, for one, have never understood why you can't simply hit a command (let's say 'N') whereupon a box pops up and you input 3 digits for the course you want. 'N' '135' response = new course 135; coming to 135 or whatever you like. How hard can it be? Isn't it what all the books and real ex-navy guys keep saying what happens?? It's just symptomatic of the game industry, I'm afraid. It's ironic that the mindblowing abilities of PCs compared with 10 years ago are coinciding with incredibly poorly written, poorly tested dross as games.

03-04-10, 01:23 AM	#4
Highbury The Old Man Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: 51.557, -0.102 Posts: 1,311 Downloads: 177 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the heads up! Heading off to get it.

03-04-10, 02:51 AM	#6
Laffertytig Grey Wolf Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 757 Downloads: 110 Uploads: 0	another good, though disapointing to read post. this game is really beginnin to sound horrible and im so glad i waited a few days before pullin the trigger on it. the only pluses i can glean from all these posts are that it looks real nice and the campaign is a step forward from previous versions. i have to ask though, why didnt they just keep the core UI from SH3 or SH4 and then add most of this new stuff on top of it? that wouldve kept everyone happy.

03-04-10, 04:17 PM	#14
OttoSchuhart Watch Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 16 Downloads: 86 Uploads: 0	This morale thing really remains a mystery to me. I got the idea that you should care for your crew and take them to the next level, no problem at all. But where is the point when the XO denies to order silent running in a critical and life-threatening situation because he's out of morale points??? So realistic. I know there's already a mod to get rid of these constraints, but what I don't quite understand is how UBI could even think of implementing this "feature"?

03-04-10, 04:19 PM	#15
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,788 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	A good informative original post Mark __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!