Census gets personal (US politics)

[August]

Originally Posted by Torvald Von Mansee

I think you'll likely find American conservatives think:

Private industry: ALWAYS GOOD!! Corporations live to serve, and deliver rainbows, bunnies, and rivers of chocolate to their customers and never, EVER **** them over!!!! Rich people are rich via merit, NEVER because they're predatory douchebags and/or inherited it!!

(Take a look at private contracting in Iraq to see how wonderfully this has all worked out..)

Big Guvmint: ALWAYS BAD, ALWAYS INCOMPETENT!!! If it weren't for governments, Allied private industry would have won World War II in early 1940!!!

Strawman? Not much.

Was any of this really necessary? Seems that liberals such as yourself were claiming the government was all that and worse just a few years ago. Do you really believe that because the present administration and their Acorn brownshirts are Democrats they are any less a threat than the Republicans were?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

As you may or may not be aware of the only answer you are required to answer is how many people live in your home.

Actually the Constition requires Congress to make "an enumeration". You are not even required to answer that question.

It's a good thing, though, as its purpose is to properly divide the apportionment of the Representatives.

Other than that, ptthhhh! I have a friend who never fails to argue with the census takers. All the more fun, because I've applied to be one. I'm curious to see what kind of instructions they give to the actual field workers.

[nikimcbee]

It all makes sense now. They just want SB.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

As you may or may not be aware of the only answer you are required to answer is how many people live in your home.

Better check 13 U.S.C Section 221

Originally Posted by August

This thread ain't about Google and nor does it serve as excuse for the Federal government to collect information it doesn't have a constitutional mandate to collect.

It is not the constitution, it is 13 U.S.C Section 5 actually.

[GoldenRivet]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Better check 13 U.S.C Section 221




It is not the constitution, it is 13 U.S.C Section 5 actually.

I'd rather send them $100

Originally Posted by August

Was any of this really necessary? Seems that liberals such as yourself were claiming the government was all that and worse just a few years ago. Do you really believe that because the present administration and their Acorn brownshirts are Democrats they are any less a threat than the Republicans were?

You have a problem with freedom of speech? Wouldn't surprise me.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Better check 13 U.S.C Section 221




It is not the constitution, it is 13 U.S.C Section 5 actually.

Yep. Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile. They always manage to create so much more intrusiveness, just because they can.

Time to start fighting again.

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

It's a good thing, though, as its purpose is to properly divide the apportionment of the Representatives.

I'm ok with that. I'll give them our names even. But they can go piss up a rope before I give them more.

[SteamWake]

A funny though crossed my mind.

With todays technology and... well... data mining (yes like google) wouldent it be realatively easy to get a really good educated guess?

Why spend millions on a goverment run census?

Couldent a private consulting firm do it cheaper and faster? Hell I bet they already have the numbers pretty damn close already.

By the way I'm not overlooking the fact that jobs will be created. That is a good thing in that some of that money will make it into the hands of Joe Shlub.

Millions of jobs are being created... by the goverment.

These jobs will dry up after the census, after the summer and the poor bastards will be on the streets again.

The timing of this boost in employment is at the very least benifical to the administration.

This does not go un noticed by me.

Originally Posted by Platapus

Better check 13 U.S.C Section 221




It is not the constitution, it is 13 U.S.C Section 5 actually.

It's a Code. It does NOT trump The Constitution.

The Census is Constitutionaly Authorized to count people, for The Apportionment of Reprensentation (House of Representatives), ONLY.

Do they go door to door for this?

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

Do they go door to door for this?

With clipboard in hand and a smile on their face.

Why do you think they are hiring millions?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

With todays technology and... well... data mining (yes like google) wouldent it be realatively easy to get a really good educated guess?

Why spend millions on a goverment run census?

The state tyranny in Germany is doing it like that. there is a census in Germany this year or next year. The data will not be asked for at the dorr, but directly collected from the database of several offices, like finance authority.

Well, at least the finance authority does not use their data on me to profile my private behaviour, interests, likes and dislikes, and social habits.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

at skybird... the boys at google dont have a sprawling military... the government does.

what information do you suppose i have given google?

e mail address? false first and last names? please,

and if i willfully provided them with that information - and it was subpoenaed because i performed illegal activity. FINE

You do not seem to be aware that every search term you ever enter into Google is stored and linbked to your IP by them for decades to come, also, if oyu use chrome, almost all your entries and internet behavior is stored by them. That is sufficient info to form an almost complete psychological profile of you, your internet habits, interests, desinterests, and social interaction. Hotspots of your comminucation can be identified. such dataset are pure money, and Google bitterly resists legislation attempts to monitor this behavior oif theirs and control it. OF COURSE they plan or do sell these data to marketing companies, producing companies. More, this data can be cross-coupled with data about yourself from other sources, data you mindlessly gave away on "social" networking sites, even stolen data. when it is stored in a database somewhere out there, it can be stolen. according crime rates are steepliy expldoing, both in the US and europe, the FBI has given a warning on this early last year, if I remember correctly, so have German authorities. the German Federal office for data security has explciitly warned of Chrome and Google company itself, labellng their kraken-behavior as a critical threat and espeically criticised that users are left in darkness about how hilarious ammounts of data are getting stored about them by Google. Since Google runs under regulation of amerrican laws and american data proteciton laws in no way compare to the much sharper pendants ineuropoe and Germany, Google easily can be named as the biggest data collector onEarth, and the ammount of data they collect about you exceedfs what even police and intelligence services in europe are allowed to gather in information about you (although in the IT area Eurppoean laws are getting softened up, too).

All this takes place without you being asked, being on control of it, or having any chance to monitor what is being done with your data. Even more, such data, if of a "negative quality", can work against you if somebody like an employer or an insurance company gets access to them. And we see that such datasets not only get sold and handed around, but are attractive taregts for data theft, even more so are data inclduing your health and financial situation. Mind you that Google plans or alredy runs a public Google Health platform, too, where oyu give away such data.

In the end it is a longterm strategy by Google to erect a konopole for the range of software services and products that they offer, chrome is a first obviouzs step into this direction.

People do complain about Microsoft being a monopolist, but they do not complain about Google while there still is time to hinder their plans...? They complain about a census by the government where you must answer oinly a basic question like how many people live in your household, but they do not care for them becoming naked in the eye of an uncontrolled, profit-oriented private company...? Both behaviors are a contradiction in themselves. It is irrational, and absurd. It's like calling "Sharks!" while standing on the centreline of an Autobahn.

People are too uncritical, and too unknowing. The younger even get raised in this bad attitude of mind. And if somebody thinks thgis is not a dangerous developement for any nation and state order in the West, eroding basic principles of democratic systems, then I cannot help him. the inherent weakness of democracy gets exploited by business beyond braking poiint and beyond the point where the sovereignity and rulership of states are being put into question.

[SteamWake]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Well, at least the finance authority does not use their data on me to profile my private behaviour, interests, likes and dislikes, and social habits.

What on earth makes you think they do not?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by SteamWake

What on earth makes you think they do not?

My social network, my internet preferences and preferred items to buy are not interesting for them, they gain no advantage from it as long as they do not open a profit-interested economy branch by themselves or open investigations against me. As one of the underfunded government offices they also probably lack the technical capacity to do this kind of profiling all by themselves. And finally, they have no legal authority to use my data for this type of processing.

In case of ´Google, all these answers are very different. Google has a business interest to learn about my profile. They are neither underfunded nor limited in their tehcncial capacity to store and process data and use it for profiling, or sell it to companies using it for profiling. And while they do not have a legal call to do all this they are nevertheless legally free to do so. American law protects this type of invasive business. Much of what Us laws allows would be considered as violation of privatesphere in Europe, or illegal data mining. EU experts in the past considered the US to be a developement county regarding data protection legislation, while EU members themseoves, on the other hand, on not few occasions exaggerate it with data protection concerns. The US and Europe are different in this: privatesphere and data protection laws. That'S why there are frequent clashes over data sharing, air passenger data sharing, credit card data sharing, as well as conflicts with Google over things like streetview, etc etc etc.