When you think SHV what do you think of? - Page 3

HundertzehnGustav · 02-20-10, 05:58 AM

...never back down never give in?
...many drops put a hole in the stone? (or something to that effect?)

my skull is thick, i can take the "headbangin-againste-the DRM-wall", no problem.

as long as SHIII is working, i have no urge to pour out 50 bucks a month just to afford the connection needed to play.

16kB, 128kb is okay for surfing here and cost 10 balls a month.
and prevent me to become a pirate.

gimme a better connection, and i will fill up my 640GB HDD in a week.

Adriatico · 02-20-10, 07:01 AM

Hardcore simulation fans - suddenly changed their opinion :

janh · 02-20-10, 07:32 AM

Hmmh, I have seen lots of games succeed and others fail badly in my gaming history. For many reasons, but the one most typical appears to me to be companies/developers not listening to the wishes of customers, or even having their own idea of what "customer have to want".

Think of Microprose, the great simulation company. Or Dynamix. Sad that they are gone, but unlike many here in the forum seem to believe, with their departure the genere remained alive and new companies quickly filled their spots.

I have a feeling that with SHV Ubi as a publisher will suffer such a setback. As already 81% of their sales are console arcade games, it is likely that they will push even more in that direction in future. If the revenues from PC games sales further decline, which I really wouldn't be at all surprised by given what the past has shown, they might sell that branch and concentrate on console markets. Unfortunately Ubi is a large pulisher and needs to pursue earnings harsher than small niche companies like Matrix, which focus on their customers and the product rather than dividends.

The case of SH and the SH developer studio already reminds me of Operation Flashpoint. Two sequels, Armed Assault (1+2) and OFP: Dragon Rising, officially were published. The latter from Codemasters, the UK publisher of the original, whereas the first are from Bohemia Interactive, the developer studio of the original. Clearly, they split up and one of them listened to its customers and came out with two successful sequels. Significant new features beyond just eye-candy were added, and nothing important from the original was left out. The Codemaster's sequel, however, turned into an arcade type low-level simulation, and as far as I am aware sales have been disappointing at best. The knew better than the customers what the latter were supposed to look for -- never a good thing. Maybe they already blamed it on piracy, but I would simply say their product missed customers wishes and did not stand up to the Arma competition, although they made a lot of wind about their sequel beforehand.

Now, who would be surprised if the SH developers at some point after SHV split from Ubi and find a new publisher? Maybe small studios like Matrix or Akella might be interested to get a de-facto monopoly on naval warfare simulations? That might also take a few years, like for OFP, but if that in the end results in a better product-- great, I can wait, enough other hobbies, movies, and games out there to bridge a few years. A new pair of new speedskates would be due, I recall.

I really don't worry about the future of submarine sims. I have seen a lot coming and going, and I will surely see more going, and new coming. Perhaps sooner than even I think?

TH0R · 02-20-10, 07:47 AM

We all agree that DRM is crap, and should be left out. But I see no point in loosing any more nerves over it.

So I voted for no.3.

Seafireliv · 02-20-10, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janh

Hmmh, I have seen lots of games succeed and others fail badly in my gaming history. For many reasons, but the one most typical appears to me to be companies/developers not listening to the wishes of customers, or even having their own idea of what "customer have to want".

Think of Microprose, the great simulation company. Or Dynamix. Sad that they are gone, but unlike many here in the forum seem to believe, with their departure the genere remained alive and new companies quickly filled their spots.

yea, it was sad when microprose went. Some of you won`t even know who Microprose and the like were, but they were big once over a decade ago, like UBI. They made some good games. But like you said it wasn`t the end. other companies took over and made alternatives. Same it will be if UBI are stupid enough to ignore their customers.

Never take crap because you`re afraid you`ll never see a similar game again. Time and experience shows that the world continues on and alternatives always come along- and often even better than before!

JScones · 02-20-10, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seafireliv

yea, it was sad when microprose went. Some of you won`t even know who Microprose and the like were, but they were big once over a decade ago, like UBI. They made some good games. But like you said it wasn`t the end. other companies took over and made alternatives. Same it will be if UBI are stupid enough to ignore their customers.

Never take crap because you`re afraid you`ll never see a similar game again. Time and experience shows that the world continues on and alternatives always come along- and often even better than before!

WWII era subsims that I am familiar with:

Silent Service - 1985 - Microprose
Wolfpack - 1990 - Broderbund
Silent Service II - 1991 - Microprose
Aces Of The Deep - 1994 - Dynamix
Grey Wolf - 1996 - Pro One
Silent Hunter - 1996 - SSI
Silent Hunter II - 2001 - Ultimation
Silent Hunter III - 2005 - Ubisoft Romania
Silent Hunter 4 - 2007 - Ubisoft Romania
Silent Hunter 5 - 2010 - Ubisoft Romania

Who's to be next...

Lord Justice · 02-20-10, 09:01 PM

Sirs, thread promises little, no vote thank you, as for game i resolve to remain for the present in a position of silent running, good day.

Platapus · 02-20-10, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JScones

WWII era subsims that I am familiar with:

Silent Service - 1985 - Microprose
Wolfpack - 1990 - Broderbund
Silent Service II - 1991 - Microprose
Aces Of The Deep - 1994 - Dynamix
Grey Wolf - 1996 - Pro One
Silent Hunter - 1996 - SSI
Silent Hunter II - 2001 - Ultimation
Silent Hunter III - 2005 - Ubisoft Romania
Silent Hunter 4 - 2007 - Ubisoft Romania
Silent Hunter 5 - 2010 - Ubisoft Romania

Who's to be next...

The only one on that list that I never played was Grey Wolf.

Wolf pack sure had potential though. Enjoyed that game a lot. I liked the sub/surface options.

weeksatsea · 02-20-10, 09:49 PM

I'm playing Rise of flight ATM and the online factor isn't killing me. I know it's the principle...

The main thing on my mind is what firewall said in post #12 - what happens after we run up and down the sub a few dozen times ? I'm not sure I want to pay for a game that hasn't developed the strategic elements much from SH4.

Neal's REveiw will be key for me in deciding .

But there's not much point discussing anything till we get our hands on it.

Nordmann · 02-20-10, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weeksatsea

But there's not much point discussing anything till we get our hands on it.

I beg to differ, discussion is not only necessary, it's an absolute must. Blindly buying a product, before taking the time to find out what comes with said product, is just damned silly.

weeksatsea · 02-20-10, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordmann

I beg to differ, discussion is not only necessary, it's an absolute must. Blindly buying a product, before taking the time to find out what comes with said product, is just damned silly.

Fair point. I haven't decided if I'll buy it or not , and the clicher will be the thoughts of posters on this forum who have bought it. I mean only those opinions will carry any weight for me.
.

jwilliams · 02-21-10, 05:59 AM

I think DRM is definitly a factor, as this DRM (OSP) will affect the game play. IF you lose connection with ubi servers (and there are many reasons why you could.) then the game will pause.

And you may even lose all progress since you last saved.

It's also bad of Ubi to assume everyone has internet and im sure they will alienate a lot of people.

But I also think that DRM is NOT the only topic worth talking about. The game has many good points too.

If OSP didnt make the game pause and you could save even if connection was lost. Then it wouldnt be too much of a problem (for me anyway). But if that was the case then OSP wouldnt need a perminent connection would it?

USS Sea Tiger · 02-21-10, 08:35 AM

DRM, well. i am i the military and take my laptop to deply and hav e the games to keep the dull times down, DRM makes it a waste of space, the same reasons I di not buy jutland and 1905, no net

aelectronic doll house of a uboat, interesting historically, but not in a game,

Only one boat, HUH? Thats like buyng IL2 but can only fly a stuka, nothing else.

Only early war, HUH? when the going gets tough, the game kicks you out of the war?

I did like the thought of influencing the war somehow. but if only up to 1943, that kind of wipes out this one good.

I just slep'd my computer, (service life extention program) to get it over the next 2 to 3 year hump, and it is just up to snuff for shV.

I have bought ravidly many UBI programs, IL2 and the full series, SHII, III, and IV and addon.

I will take a wait and see attitude though on SHV. If I cant play it when deployed though, then no, its of no use to me, I'll stick with SHIII and the great mods for her! not saying never, just saying, no, not at launch and will see what support UBI will supply her. I do worry thouhg it is a lead submarine, sinking at launch.

maybe UBI will see these posts, and there will e a SHV addons, the other boats, no DRms and such.

I think the core system will l be there, if UBI can, and would make addon disks/uboats, but surely, it will need upgrades.

ERPP8 · 02-22-10, 03:56 PM

I personally think it's sad how many people said it's the only good topic

Peter Cremer · 02-22-10, 05:51 PM

I would loved to play SH five, but I want to buy it not rent it so I will pass on this one until the DRM is gone. They will probably lose more money because of DRM than they will due to piracy. Or maybe DRM makes piracy look like a more attractive option...............

View Poll Results: What do you think about how much people are talking about DRM not SHV it's self
I think DRM is the only topic worth talking about	63	46.32%
People should be more positive about DRM and SHV	6	4.41%
People should focus more on the actual game	66	48.53%
I don't think DRM should be discussed at all	1	0.74%
Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

02-20-10, 05:58 AM	#31
HundertzehnGustav Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lux, betw. G, B and F Posts: 1,898 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	...never back down never give in? ...many drops put a hole in the stone? (or something to that effect?) my skull is thick, i can take the "headbangin-againste-the DRM-wall", no problem. as long as SHIII is working, i have no urge to pour out 50 bucks a month just to afford the connection needed to play. 16kB, 128kb is okay for surfing here and cost 10 balls a month. and prevent me to become a pirate. gimme a better connection, and i will fill up my 640GB HDD in a week. __________________ In conclusion: SH3 is the shizzle, yo. -Frau Kaleun Another negative about using your deck gun is that you are definately DETECTED, which has long term effects on your relationship with aircraft. -snestorm

02-20-10, 07:01 AM	#32
Adriatico Grey Wolf Join Date: May 2007 Location: Periscope depth Posts: 860 Downloads: 119 Uploads: 0	Hardcore simulation fans - suddenly changed their opinion : __________________

02-20-10, 07:32 AM	#33
janh Stinking drunk in Trinidad Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 349 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	future of "Silent Hunter Franchise" Hmmh, I have seen lots of games succeed and others fail badly in my gaming history. For many reasons, but the one most typical appears to me to be companies/developers not listening to the wishes of customers, or even having their own idea of what "customer have to want". Think of Microprose, the great simulation company. Or Dynamix. Sad that they are gone, but unlike many here in the forum seem to believe, with their departure the genere remained alive and new companies quickly filled their spots. I have a feeling that with SHV Ubi as a publisher will suffer such a setback. As already 81% of their sales are console arcade games, it is likely that they will push even more in that direction in future. If the revenues from PC games sales further decline, which I really wouldn't be at all surprised by given what the past has shown, they might sell that branch and concentrate on console markets. Unfortunately Ubi is a large pulisher and needs to pursue earnings harsher than small niche companies like Matrix, which focus on their customers and the product rather than dividends. The case of SH and the SH developer studio already reminds me of Operation Flashpoint. Two sequels, Armed Assault (1+2) and OFP: Dragon Rising, officially were published. The latter from Codemasters, the UK publisher of the original, whereas the first are from Bohemia Interactive, the developer studio of the original. Clearly, they split up and one of them listened to its customers and came out with two successful sequels. Significant new features beyond just eye-candy were added, and nothing important from the original was left out. The Codemaster's sequel, however, turned into an arcade type low-level simulation, and as far as I am aware sales have been disappointing at best. The knew better than the customers what the latter were supposed to look for -- never a good thing. Maybe they already blamed it on piracy, but I would simply say their product missed customers wishes and did not stand up to the Arma competition, although they made a lot of wind about their sequel beforehand. Now, who would be surprised if the SH developers at some point after SHV split from Ubi and find a new publisher? Maybe small studios like Matrix or Akella might be interested to get a de-facto monopoly on naval warfare simulations? That might also take a few years, like for OFP, but if that in the end results in a better product-- great, I can wait, enough other hobbies, movies, and games out there to bridge a few years. A new pair of new speedskates would be due, I recall. I really don't worry about the future of submarine sims. I have seen a lot coming and going, and I will surely see more going, and new coming. Perhaps sooner than even I think? Last edited by janh; 02-20-10 at 07:42 AM.

02-20-10, 09:01 PM	#37
Lord Justice Previously 4Para Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Britain Posts: 609 Downloads: 51 Uploads: 0	Sirs, thread promises little, no vote thank you, as for game i resolve to remain for the present in a position of silent running, good day. __________________ If you cant be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning! Last edited by Lord Justice; 02-20-10 at 09:16 PM.

02-20-10, 07:47 AM	#34
TH0R XO Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 420 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	We all agree that DRM is crap, and should be left out. But I see no point in loosing any more nerves over it. So I voted for no.3.

02-20-10, 09:49 PM	#39
weeksatsea Watch Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 22 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	I'm playing Rise of flight ATM and the online factor isn't killing me. I know it's the principle... The main thing on my mind is what firewall said in post #12 - what happens after we run up and down the sub a few dozen times ? I'm not sure I want to pay for a game that hasn't developed the strategic elements much from SH4. Neal's REveiw will be key for me in deciding . But there's not much point discussing anything till we get our hands on it.

02-21-10, 05:59 AM	#42
jwilliams Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,013 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	I think DRM is definitly a factor, as this DRM (OSP) will affect the game play. IF you lose connection with ubi servers (and there are many reasons why you could.) then the game will pause. And you may even lose all progress since you last saved. It's also bad of Ubi to assume everyone has internet and im sure they will alienate a lot of people. But I also think that DRM is NOT the only topic worth talking about. The game has many good points too. If OSP didnt make the game pause and you could save even if connection was lost. Then it wouldnt be too much of a problem (for me anyway). But if that was the case then OSP wouldnt need a perminent connection would it?

02-21-10, 08:35 AM	#43
USS Sea Tiger XO Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 425 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	my thoughts DRM, well. i am i the military and take my laptop to deply and hav e the games to keep the dull times down, DRM makes it a waste of space, the same reasons I di not buy jutland and 1905, no net aelectronic doll house of a uboat, interesting historically, but not in a game, Only one boat, HUH? Thats like buyng IL2 but can only fly a stuka, nothing else. Only early war, HUH? when the going gets tough, the game kicks you out of the war? I did like the thought of influencing the war somehow. but if only up to 1943, that kind of wipes out this one good. I just slep'd my computer, (service life extention program) to get it over the next 2 to 3 year hump, and it is just up to snuff for shV. I have bought ravidly many UBI programs, IL2 and the full series, SHII, III, and IV and addon. I will take a wait and see attitude though on SHV. If I cant play it when deployed though, then no, its of no use to me, I'll stick with SHIII and the great mods for her! not saying never, just saying, no, not at launch and will see what support UBI will supply her. I do worry thouhg it is a lead submarine, sinking at launch. maybe UBI will see these posts, and there will e a SHV addons, the other boats, no DRms and such. I think the core system will l be there, if UBI can, and would make addon disks/uboats, but surely, it will need upgrades.

02-22-10, 03:56 PM	#44
ERPP8 Commodore Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: My House Posts: 608 Downloads: 161 Uploads: 0	I personally think it's sad how many people said it's the only good topic Last edited by ERPP8; 02-22-10 at 04:16 PM.

02-22-10, 05:51 PM	#45
Peter Cremer Machinist's Mate Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Usually in the past.... Posts: 121 Downloads: 144 Uploads: 0	I would loved to play SH five, but I want to buy it not rent it so I will pass on this one until the DRM is gone. They will probably lose more money because of DRM than they will due to piracy. Or maybe DRM makes piracy look like a more attractive option...............