Slightly worrying article

[Hitman]

riginally Posted by TDK1044 If "Piracy" is a slang term for copyright infringement, the unlawful reproduction of the work of another, often for the purpose of re-distribution and profit.......

How is paying $50 for a game, not reproducing or copying it in any shape or form, but instead defeating inappropriate software restrictions designed to force you to play it online instead of on your own computer....how is that piracy?

I do NOT want to open a discussion here on a subject that will get members banned, but I feel that the term Piracy is cast with too wide a net sometimes.

Just to clarify: For me a pirate is just someone who STEALS, i.e. gets the product and uses it without having paid for it. No difference for me between the guy who downloads a cracked game or who goes into a shop and sneaks away with one under his jacket.

Using cracks on legitimatelly bought copies is just a EULA infrigement, but not piracy. And of course, it tends to promote and make it easy for pirates to obtain the mans to get illegal copies of software, but is not piracy itself.

In any case, you guys should know that f.e. here in Spain (Dunno about other countries) paragraph 270.3 of our criminal code considers delictive simply to posses, and of course create and spread programs or hardware that are specifically destined to eliminate the protection set by copyright holders in their works. I.e. creating or even posessing a game crack in Spain is not just illegal, but also a criminal offence.

[Frederf]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Just to clarify: For me a pirate is just someone who STEALS

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the EVEN MORE PICKY distinction that piracy isn't theft (stealing). Stealing requires that the original owner is deprived of the stolen good. Piracy doesn't do that with the original product unless you get rather abstract.

[Sailor Steve]

But the pirate is (in theory at least) stealing potential revenues from the company.

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

But the pirate is (in theory at least) stealing potential revenues from the company.

Potential and very real revenues.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

But the pirate is (in theory at least) stealing potential revenues from the company.

For a start, you can't steal revenue, as that's just not even possible, in the same way that you can't steal distribution costs. Also, you can't just make something up and call it a crime. You could say that the pirates were 'murdering' the sales of a game. But would the crime REALLY be murder? Laws are written down for a reason, so hysterical corporations can be laughed at. Whenever they say piracy is theft, they are lying. Piracy is murder! Piracy is genocide... does that sound worse? It's just as made up. But hang on, I mustn't buy something from someone on the market, who has an accent and is selling cheap DVDs, as it might be a copy, even though it looks like it's an original, because he might be funding terrorism. You know, that's damn scarey, so it's much safer to not pay for anything. That superstore chain - maybe they're funding terrorism as well? How can one tell?

If I were to goto my next door neighbours car, break into it and hotwire it, then drive round in it all night, then be pulled over by the police... that's not theft. If THAT'S not theft, then how is copying a game theft? THEFT has a very clear definition in the law and no matter how hard people try to tell you otherwise, it will not change, UNLESS there is a change in the law.

[IanC]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

For a start, you can't steal revenue, as that's just not even possible, in the same way that you can't steal distribution costs. Also, you can't just make something up and call it a crime. You could say that the pirates were 'murdering' the sales of a game. But would the crime REALLY be murder? Laws are written down for a reason, so hysterical corporations can be laughed at. Whenever they say piracy is theft, they are lying. Piracy is murder! Piracy is genocide... does that sound worse? It's just as made up. But hang on, I mustn't buy something from someone on the market, who has an accent and is selling cheap DVDs, as it might be a copy, even though it looks like it's an original, because he might be funding terrorism. You know, that's damn scarey, so it's much safer to not pay for anything. That superstore chain - maybe they're funding terrorism as well? How can one tell?

If I were to goto my next door neighbours car, break into it and hotwire it, then drive round in it all night, then be pulled over by the police... that's not theft. If THAT'S not theft, then how is copying a game theft? THEFT has a very clear definition in the law and no matter how hard people try to tell you otherwise, it will not change, UNLESS there is a change in the law.

Nisgeis what are you talking about. You're splitting hairs and double talking like a lawyer would.
Piracy of games costs the game companies money. End of story.

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by IanC

Nisgeis what are you talking about. You're splitting hairs and double talking like a lawyer would.
Piracy of games costs the game companies money. End of story.

What's this now? War on truth? It's not double talk, it's single talk about the LAW. There are no hairs being split - the law is extremely clear. It's not theft. You don't even own the game you pay for, you merely have a license for it. Can you steal a license? No. Regarldess of how much the pirates cost the games companies, that does not change the discussion at hand - piracy is not legally theft and no matter how much people say it is, it will not make it so. Piracy is also not genocide and piracy is also not a lemon scented bathroom detergent, no matter who says so. If you wish to argue a point, argue it, but within the realms of reality. It does no good to argue from a utopian point where all pirates are castrated and they are convicted of murder. That's not real.

Yes, people who do not pay for a game instead of paying for a game cost the company money, but they don't cost revenue and that doesn't make it theft, legally. I'm not saying that's good, I'm not saying that's bad, I'm just saying that's the way it is.

If you can show me a single case where someone has been charged with theft over, say, music downloads, then I'll concede the point. There have been a lot of people in trouble over that recently.

[Sailor Steve]

Good points. On the other hand how did the record companies' suits against the free download sites turn out?

Still, you argue that it's not illegal. Do you also contend that it's not wrong?