[REL] Real Fleet Boat 2.0

[Donner]

Originally Posted by OlegM

Serious repeatable bug.

Recognition book, Japanese warships, I usually browse the book from the end, when you get to the Momi patrol boat and click left arrow game always crashes. It didn't happen before the patch.

Just tried this, and game does not crash for me.

In reading your earlier posts, did you reinstall RSRD after the patch? If you didn't then this might be causing your CTD.

[OlegM]

Originally Posted by Donner

Just tried this, and game does not crash for me. In reading your earlier posts, did you reinstall RSRD after the patch? If you didn't then this might be causing your CTD.

Well do I have to reinstall RSRDC after RFB patch? I asked that already, but no one bothered to answer....

[Donner]

Originally Posted by OlegM

Well do I have to reinstall RSRDC after RFB patch? I asked that already, but no one bothered to answer....

RFB patch might overwrite anything that was RSRDC. So, yes, you will need to reinstall RSRDC.

My advice would be start using JSGME...it will make things so much easier for you to track down where conflicts are.

Just my two cents...

[Nephandus]

May I enquire if one of the developers might want to comment on this?

Although the mod is the best I have seen so far for this game, this issue is definitely a "must be addressed"...

I find it somewhat disturbing that the AI crew can see much further than I can. Today, under excellent daytime conditions (exc. visibility, no waves), the AI spotted a Hog Island Freighter and more than 20000 yards (and those things are pretty low profile actually). When looking myself I couldn't even see the slightest trace of smoke. This actually happens on a regular basis.

The second thing that happened to me was under the following conditions: Daytime, moderate waves with winds at 8 m/s, partial cloudy skies... and good visibility... My S18 boat sunk while being app. 20 minutes away from Brisbane... Why? Because while being on time compression it rammed into a patrolling Kent Heavy Cruiser. Lucky for me I had a savegame and I tested. The visual range under these conditions was just slightly above 1100 yards (up to that, I could "lock" the cruiser, above that it just vanished into the fog.... This situation would not even qualify as fair visibility.

I would expect to see the following:
- AI crew detection is at the same range as a human player could see
- Good Visibility should allow to spot (AI and Human) at a range of 8000-10000 yards, Fair Visibility should still be at 3000-5000 and poor should be at app. 500-1000 (all figures during daytime, no clouds and calm sea)
- The fog density should be significantly reduced.... at the moment, good visibility feels like poor visibility in RFB 1.5

I would fix it myself... unfortunately I cannot find the files with the variables.

Originally Posted by Nephandus

First of all I have to say that Environment 5.0 looks really neat.

However, I seem to have some problems with it:

- Under excellent visibility the detection range of a target is app. 13.000 to 19.000 yards by the AI (The latter one was a large modern tanker under ideal conditions... daytime, no waves, no wind, excellent visibility).

- However, when there is "good" visibility, the visual detection range is below 5000 yards (usually around 1500 to 3000 yards) and there is a heck of a fog

- In "fair" visibility, the fog gets even denser, the detection range is nigh non-existent. The fog

- I did not encounter poor visibility yet but I assume that the fog will cause me not being able to see the bow of my own boat anymore.

- It appears that during nighttime, the fog is less dense and even less present if it is raining.

Based on these observations, I think this needs some fixing. Good visibility needs a lot less fog (the present settings would be good for fair visibility) and an increase in visual detection range (I think around 8000 yards in calm weather would be appropriate). Fair visibility would need the fog of the present good visibility with visual detection range of app 3000 yards.

[Jten]

I'm not a developer but remember that the AI vision ranges are supposed to mimic real life visibility ranges depending on weather conditions. You however, are looking at a computer monitor. Puffs of smoke and mast tops may be visible in real life but not on a monitor.

Your complaint about weather descriptions are valid, however, the enviro mods have pushed the game beyond original concepts and there may only be a few descriptions available. Fair may have to cover a wide range and actual visits to the bridge are needed.

It would be nice if we could get icon warnings about the weather. Fog, and Rain in particular.

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by Fish40

OK, I just loaded the patch and started a new patrol from Pearl. It's March/42 and I'm in a Tambor class. I had a couple of questions. First, according to the readme, the Fleetboat speeds were adjusted. My standard speed is now 15kt., where it used to be 10. Standard speed used to be the most economical for Fleetboats. Is it still the most economical at 15, or should I set it for 10?

10 knots is still the most economical. 15 knots, however, was the standard cruising speed and the speed at which dive times were calculated. Running your boat at the recommended speed of 10 knots now, however, will give you substantially more range, due to the main ballast tanks being simulated as carrying fuel.

[LukeFF]

Unfortunately, the people who are/were the driving force behind the AI visual detection ranges aren't around that much anymore on the RFB forums. I'll see, though, if things can be tweaked for a future update.

[NKVD-crazyivan]

Hi all this will be my first time on RFB 2 plus pacth.............

i have been playing TMO...

Can i have the correct order of install along with RSRDC...

and can i apply the eax sound mod to this as well

looking forward to trying this mod out thanks all for puting such effoert into this game...............

[LukeFF]

Originally Posted by NKVD-crazyivan

Hi all this will be my first time on RFB 2 plus pacth.............

i have been playing TMO...

Can i have the correct order of install along with RSRDC...

The correct installation order is in the first post of this thread.

[Hitman]

Unfortunately, the people who are/were the driving force behind the AI visual detection ranges aren't around that much anymore on the RFB forums. I'll see, though, if things can be tweaked for a future update.

Luke I have the feeling that the visual sensors were tested and calibrated BEFORE adding some environmental stuff. In the current RFB environment, it is true that seeing rendered on screen a ship that is at long to extreme ranges and your crew has detected, is simply impossible. Yet the detection ranges for the crew seemed reasonable, so I have digged a bit into the scene.dat and have found some weird things.

If you look into the good visibility horizon fog parameter:

scene.dat----->13.EnvSim----->14.EnvSim----->FogDistances----->[0]---->ObjetcsrelativeZmax

you will see that it is set as "0.8", meaning that the fog appears at 80% of the maximum visible range. This is just 16.000 metres (!), meaning that in the last 4000 metres available you won't actually see anything rendered on screen, just horizon fog.

Then, you can see that in the other weather parameters (1 to 3) for denser fog, there are some numbers that are difficult to consider "correct"

The value for light fog (1) is 0.04 (800 metres!!!) // SH stock value ---> 0.5 (10000 metres)
The value for medium fog (2) is 0.01 (200 metres) // SH stock value ---> 0,25 (5000 metres)
The value for heavy fog (3) is also 0.01 (200 metres) // SH stock value ---> 0,05 (400 metres)

I know that SH4 scene.dat worked slightly different than SH3 because now we have volumetric (3D) fog, and I suspect that these very reduced values were set by W_clear to account for that 3D fog. But they might have a perverse effect in the crew lookouts vs. screen rendering proportions. Specially the last two values should not be the same, and definitively, the light fog value is utterly wrong. This causes that as soon as light fog is present, ships will be almost invisible to the player.

As a provisional measure, and pending an in-depth testing of this all, I would recommend reverting to following values in scene.dat:

[0] No fog --->ObjetcsrelativeZmax=0,95 (Fog starts at 19.000 metres)
[1] Light fog --->ObjetcsrelativeZmax=0,5 (Fog starts at 10.000 metres)
[2] Medium fog --->ObjetcsrelativeZmax=0,25 (Fog starts at 5.000 metres)
[3] Heavy fog --->ObjetcsrelativeZmax=0,05 (Fog starts at 400 metres)

And I have already made those changes in this file here (Luke I hope you don't mind I didn't consult you previously):

UNOFFICIAL PROVISIONAL QUICK FIX

It would be very important that all RFB users who experience this problem download it, and provide feedback about situations in which their crew has spotted enemy ships and yet they were not visible rendered on screen.

The report should include:

-Day and hour
-Location (General area will suffice, f.e. Philipines Sea, Palaus, Japan Coast, Kuriles...)
-Fog amount (Use the report weather button)
-Wether you are using volumetric fog (NOT recommended by now) or not

With some feedback on this and a bit of testing I think that we should be able to solve the problem of not seeing what our crew sees. Tweaking the opposite problem (Us seeing something the crew has not noticed) is however much more difficult, because certain sensor stock bugs have a role here (Read more about it in the RFB manual if you are interested)

Thanks all

[Frederf]

It's worth it to note that that "passionate guy" about the ridiculous number of torpedoes to sink things says in at least one case fired 5 torpedoes... but not all at once. If I remember correctly shooting 1 torpedo an hour for 5 hours is different than 5 torpedoes hitting inside 60 seconds. Also I never got info on whether the torpedo hits were spread out or not.

And as I recall in 1.52 attacking any target that hadn't been given the "magic touch" or a proper flooding model was absolutely frustrating to deal with as I'm sure that invincible jap CVL was.

Did RFB2.0 include the RCM Imperial radar mod? I had a version that was merged with 1.52's files and I was wondering if I should do that again for 2.0.

It looks like the fog is pretty universally called out for being too aggressive, especially if the weather algorithm is still so eager to hand out lesser visibilities as in stock. I hope it gets resolved.

I can't wait to wade back into SH4 and provide some passionate, constructive feedback.

[Fish40]

Alright, this is strange. After further testing, I tried to play a Tambor class in 42 on one of the single missions. I have the spaces for the planesmen, yet I don't have them on the Tambor in the campaign I continued I loaded the patch in port befor shoving off, so I can't figure it.




Nevermind. Started a new campaign in Tambor, April/42 all seems well now.

[Bilge_Rat]

I have been playing around with this and am very impressed so far with the attention to detail.

Regarding my earlier question, I see the RFB stadimeter method only works for a "camera target". For a target which is listed in the recognition manual, you still have to use topmast height.


Finally, the manual states that RFB is not compatible with "environment mods", but the "Pacific Environment" manual says the RFB team was coming out with a RFB version. Was this done? I cant seem to find it.

[Nephandus]

Originally Posted by Hitman

It would be very important that all RFB users who experience this problem download it, and provide feedback about situations in which their crew has spotted enemy ships and yet they were not visible rendered on screen.

The report should include:

-Day and hour
-Location (General area will suffice, f.e. Philipines Sea, Palaus, Japan Coast, Kuriles...)
-Fog amount (Use the report weather button)
-Wether you are using volumetric fog (NOT recommended by now) or not

With some feedback on this and a bit of testing I think that we should be able to solve the problem of not seeing what our crew sees. Tweaking the opposite problem (Us seeing something the crew has not noticed) is however much more difficult, because certain sensor stock bugs have a role here (Read more about it in the RFB manual if you are interested)

Thanks all

That was much quicker and more than I hoped to anticipate

Since I kind of brought this issue up, I am going to test right away and provide feedback.

Just one more comment to make sure. I was not complaining.... just pointing out that there was something severely wrong.

[Javelin]

The addition of RFB along with TM mods make SH4 a truly great sim. My only "issue" is the TBT view, I miss the two lens look. Is there a way to return it to the two lens look ?