Convert this heretic

Originally Posted by Snow White Sorrow

GWX is also unique that the developers made a very pretty and useful manual.

Actually GWX made me fall in love with Silent Hunter 3. I couldn't play the stock game (in my opinion it was simply unplayable, even knowing that some will not have the same opinion) before the modders put their mark. But still, even in that magnificent manual, it is written that there are some features that cannot be corrected from the stock game.
I have SH4 also, but I cannot play it. Even with Operation Monsun. I appreciate a lot the work of the modders of that project, and when I mean "a lot", it's exactly what I am trying to say. But it's not as good as GWX. And that's why I am sorry SH4 will rest forever on my shelf, GWX4 was the most expected thing for me, because I knew from the beginning that SH5 won't be the desired game for me. I knew it because the direction "more arcade/less sim" was obvious just comparing SH3 (2005) and SH4 (2007).
The modders are the real heroes, not the developers. The modders are cleaning the garbage left by others, and they are doing all they can do at their best for free, from their hearts. To us.

[evan82]

Originally Posted by Seafireliv

yea, i remember that. I was actually really enjoying MOH. the sounds were great, the fighting was quite realistic with the Germans fighting back and even counter-attacking at times. I was even prepared to take the silly custom weapons.

True.

Originally Posted by Seafireliv

But when all of a sudden this German in a gas mask stepped off the train and took multiple MG without flinching and blew several marines away, i was like `What the hell?`

I still played the game to the end, but I felt that fantasy Nazi really blew what might`ve been a great game.

All artilery tower from last mission was also strange a little. Yes. German SS elite soldiers in the gas masks were very bad idea also for me.

Springfield + grenade was good on this creatures.

Sorry for offtop.

[Snow White Sorrow]

It does sound as bad as the Panzerkleins from Silent Storm, which are more or less steampunk powered armour suits.

Their appearance ruined the suspension of belief imposed by a more or less authentic and very detailed WW2 infantry combat game. From the developer's perspective however, they probably couldn't add actual historical armoured vehicles due to the limited scale of the game (game environment is very small and focuses on individual operatives' actions), which would be far too large and powerful.

[flakmonkey]

Hows about an actual story rather than just a series of randomized patrols, it may have moved slightly away from the hardcore sim but it will be interesting to see it you actually get attached to your crew and boat in a way you never could in sh3/4.
Im kind of looking forward to the change in gameplay just to see if it works, its like Call of Duty: Battle of the Atlantic.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Snow White Sorrow

GWX is also unique that the developers made a very pretty and useful manual.

Nope. NYGM had a great manual more than a year earlier. People locked into the GWX thing have never tried NYGM, LSH3 or WAC.

And SH4 has much the better platform, and some great mods, but is still waiting for those extra touches.

I keep saying that the reason SH5's campaign ends in 1943 is because the devs actually noticed that every single major supermod for SH3 and SH4 starts with the total junking of the campaign and a completely new one being created. When they don't have the resources to add all the research necessary to match that, what is the point of putting in a full campaign when you can create a new and different one that modders can play with all they want?

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak

I knew it because the direction "more arcade/less sim" was obvious just comparing SH3 (2005) and SH4 (2007).

Someone would have to explain this statement to me, stock SH3 and SH4 are the same in terms of game mechanic and "realism", although SH4 was prettier.

RFB and RSRDC now bring SH4 at least up to the level of SH3 NYGM, in terms of "realism".

Just speculating, but from what I have seen so far, SH5 should have at least the same features as stock SH3 and SH4, plus other features which members of this board have been asking for a long time, such as the ability to walk through the boat and AI wolfpacks, for instance. I have no doubt that in 2-3 years, modders will have SH5 up to the current level of SH4, in terms of realism.

SH5 may not be perfect, but let's face it, no one other than Ubisoft is still producing subsims and if the sales of SH5 are poor, there may never be a SH6 or another subsim...ever.

To me, it seems a no brainer to spend $50 to get another 3 years of playing a state-of-the-art subsim. That works out to what?..... $1.39 a month.....

[Heretic]

I don't see SH5 as a replacement for SHII/IV, at least initially. It has a different focus and, likely, a different gameplay. I'm sure I'll be playing both, as the mood strikes.

Down the road, as the add-on and mod situation becomes clearer, it may evolve into a replacement.

[Safe-Keeper]

So, lads (and lasses if any), what does SH5 offer me compared to my lovely SH3+GWX that doesn't need a Cray supercomputer to run?

DRM.

Seriously, though, the answer is nothing. GWX is a masterpiece that no retail WWII submarine simulator can match.

I'm personally still buying SH5, but if you're happy with GWX, more power to you - feel free to stick with III until 5 is modded as heavily.

[Platapus]

O dire extremity
O state of living death
What dreadful silliness
All around me is dead and do I exist or am I but a statue?
Is this a vision?
Are these things real?
Alas I am bewildered!

See Mrs. Tedisco* I remembered your lecture on Ann Radcliffe!

*Mrs. Tedisco was one of my highschool English Lit teachers. A great teacher and incidentally one hot piece of a$$ too.

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally Posted by Platapus

O dire extremity
O state of living death
What dreadful silliness
All around me is dead and do I exist or am I but a statue?
Is this a vision?
Are these things real?
Alas I am bewildered!

See Mrs. Tedisco* I remembered your lecture on Ann Radcliffe!

*Mrs. Tedisco was one of my highschool English Lit teachers. A great teacher and incidentally one hot piece of a$$ too.

Which is precisely why you remember all that.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak

I have SH4 also, but I cannot play it. Even with Operation Monsun.

Can you explain exactly what it is that keeps it back? As far as I can see the only thing that GWX has the Op Monsun doesn't is the eye candy. OM is very advanced. Or maybe I'm missing something. And don't get me wrong - I was crushed when GWX4 got cancelled, because I like that extra touch.

The modders are the real heroes, not the developers. The modders are cleaning the garbage left by others, and they are doing all they can do at their best for free, from their hearts. To us.

On the other hand, without Dan and his team there would be no modders, no mods, and no SH3; so why don't we dis them a little more and maybe there won't be any more subsims to complain about.

[Rockin Robbins]

Beat to the punch by Sailor Steve. The modders/gods vs devs/bums stuff is very, very old and tired. It never rang true and stinks now because it is a rotting corpse.

[Heretic]

I always preferred NYGM to GWX, though I can't really say why. SHIII has gotten most of the love because it's been out longer and, I think, there was simply more interest in modding for the uboats than there was for the US subs. I imagine some folks just didn't feel motivated to do it all over again after the Uboat addon came out. Which is a shame, since there are a lot of improvements in the game engine.

TMO and RFB, I think, are every bit as good as the SHIII major mods. OM is getting close and is more remarkable, I think, since so much had to be done from scratch. OM's increasing maturity is what's finally brought me over from SHIII. I doubt I'll ever go back to SHIII again. I sure as heck got my money's worth out of it!

[Sailor Steve]

An excellent summation, heretic! I still play SH3 mainly because there is no SH4 Commander, and what it brings to the table is what keeps me alive.

But I play SH4 as well.

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by onelifecrisis

Also even if the AI is the same as SH4 that'd still be a big improvement on the AI in SH3/GWX.

I respectfully disagree. In terms of detection, stock AI on SH4 was the same as Sh3 with the added exception of thermal layers. In terms of hardcoded AI routines, SH3 was much better in IMO.

Originally Posted by Gunnodayak

I have SH4 also, but I cannot play it. Even with Operation Monsun. I appreciate a lot the work of the modders of that project, and when I mean "a lot", it's exactly what I am trying to say. But it's not as good as GWX.

This may come as a shock to some, but i seriously doubt GWX could have done much better then other modders already have in SH4. IMO, SH4 as a platform, has some root level flaws that only an official patch can fix. No amount of modding - by anyone - can solve some of SH4's deeper issues.

Originally Posted by flakmonkey

Hows about an actual story rather than just a series of randomized patrols,

Campaign and mission scripting is acutaly one SH4's strongest points, if not the strongest point. Creating a story is entirely possible to do in SH4 within the confines of a mission, and squencing those missions, but its a crapton of work.

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

Nope. NYGM had a great manual more than a year earlier. People locked into the GWX thing have never tried NYGM, LSH3 or WAC.

People locked onto GWX, because they engaged in an amazingly successful forum PR campaign. Remember, NYGM and GWX were "at war" with each other. So getting people to overlook NYGM was the entire point. There are some aspects such as AI sensors, and submarine physics that are better in NYGM then GWX. NYGM also had an intergrated periscope TDC before GWX 1.03 was even publshed. And unless im mistaken, the sinking model GWX uses was originally inspired from NYGM's version. Im not saying its the same now, im sure its not, but NYGM did come out with the first sinking model and everyone else sort of built upon that. A few years ago, you'd NEVER hear me admit any of this publicly, as i was neck deep in the mod war shennaingans myself, and on the side of GWX.

The sad thing in all of this, is the because of petty rivalry, and bickering, the end user and the community was ultimatly robbed of a "supermod" that, would have/could have eclipsed everything they currently use had the talent behind both been able to put aside their differences and combine the best of what both supermods have to offer.