One Torpedo, One Ship?

[Bubblehead1980]

I remember watching a 5 part series via youtube a week or so ago about U boats, very good show.I remember one "Ace" was said to use one torpedo for one ship....were German torpedos the powerful? Would this work in U boat game? Im a fleetboat guy so U boat stuff is still mostly an unknown arena.Not starting the discussion but hoping DRM is dropped so I will buy SH 5

[Deep Dive]

If i remember well this was the moto of "Silent" Otto Kretschmer
Torpedoes were generally powerful enough to bring most ships down in most cases
There were many "duds" of course especially in the first years
Both Americans and Germans experienced various similar problems

[Sailor Steve]

American policy was to fire three torpedoes at most targets. Of course they carried 24 torpedoes, so they were ready for that.

Read Uboat.net's accounts of how many ships were hit by one German torpedoe and sailed away to tell about it. Also there are many accounts of one torpedo stopping the ship, and the u-boat giving it a 'coup-de-gras' several hours later. Or sank it with the deck gun. Or tried that and then delivered a second eel. And sometimes a third.

'One ship, one torpedo' makes a nice saying, but the German torpedoes didn't fare any better than the American ones did.

[Galanti]

It's an ironclad rule on U-56 right now in my Operation Monsun career, but only because she only carries five of them. I go for magnetic keel shots as much as possible.

In my RFB campaign, Christ, I'll empty the whole bow at one little Maru to compensate for deep-runners, duds and my general ineptness.

I think Steve's right, plenty of ships went down to one fish, but it was by no means the majority.

On the other hand, we'll never know how many went down to multiple fish where just one would have sufficed.

[Jimbuna]

http://www.modelshipmaster.com/produ...rines/U-99.htm

In the first four patrols of the U-99, Kretschmer started striking convoys at night on the surface, taking down merchant ships with highly accurate shots, using only one torpedo per target ship in order to save ammunition, and the quote "One torpedo ... one ship" is attributed to Kretschmer from around this time.

[Bubblehead1980]

Thanks for the replies.One thing I hope is possible in SH 5 is to be able to get inside the convoys as real U boats did.I never played SH 3, was this possible?

[ReFaN]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Thanks for the replies.One thing I hope is possible in SH 5 is to be able to get inside the convoys as real U boats did.I never played SH 3, was this possible?

done it once or twice, but after you hit something you would probably die very quick from the Merchants guns :P

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

Thanks for the replies.One thing I hope is possible in SH 5 is to be able to get inside the convoys as real U boats did.I never played SH 3, was this possible?

Under ideal nightime conditions (certainly in GWX3.0 anyway) it was possible, but because of the close proximity of the merchants and escorts it was best practice to dive deep as soon as you emptied your tubes.

[Méo]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Under ideal nightime conditions (certainly in GWX3.0 anyway) it was possible, but because of the close proximity of the merchants and escorts it was best practice to dive deep as soon as you emptied your tubes.

Maybe, but if we are back to the ''one torpedo, one ship'' seems to me like this motto was almost impossible to achieve in GWX 3.0.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Méo

Maybe, but if we are back to the ''one torpedo, one ship'' seems to me like this motto was almost impossible to achieve in GWX 3.0.

Not impossible, just much harder than stock. A shot to the bow compartment of most targets takes them out after short while or a keel shot under the engine room or fuel bunker usually sinks them in one go.

Personally my motto is "Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice." the results from this practise I find more than satisfactory.

[Dissaray]

I've droped ships with a single eel a number of times useing GWX3. It isn't a sure thing thoguh, and high seas after the hit certanly help. More often than not I find my slef puting two into targets befor they go down, the larger ones any way.

The trick is to aim low and try to bust the keel or put a hole fully below the waterline. But it is generaly not a good idea to get all stingy with the ammo when things get thick.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I remember watching a 5 part series via youtube a week or so ago about U boats, very good show.I remember one "Ace" was said to use one torpedo for one ship....were German torpedos the powerful?

1943
Mark 14 torpedo (USN) 643 Pounds/292Kg of Torpex

G7a (German) 661 Pounds/300Kg Hexanite

Torpex consists of 42% RDX, 40% TNT and 18% Aluminum Powder

Hexanite or what the Germans called "SW39a" was 50% TNT, 10% Hexinit, 5% ammonium nitrate, and 35% aluminium powder.

Comparing explosives can be difficult. The term "more powerful" can be misleading. The term "Brisance" is used as a measure of how fast an explosive can reach its maximum pressure.

Explosives with lower Brisance well tend to push an object away (very low Brisance explosives can be used as a propellant). Explosives with a higher Brisance will tend to shatter an object.

Explosives with a lower Brisance will tend to have a longer explosive pulse (the duration of highest pressure). Explosives with a higher Brisance will tend to have a shorter explosive pulse.

So when trying to sink a ship with a torpedo, do you want explosives with a higher or a lower Brisance?

The answer is yes. Because torpedoes have the special advantage of being used underwater, the water can serve as what is called a Tamper. The inertia of water contains the explosive wave therefore increasing the duration (and incidentally focusing) the explosive pulse. What you want is an explosive that has both the effects of a higher Brisance (for the speed to get to maximum pressure) and the effects of a lower Brisance (for the longer duration of that maximum pressure). The trouble is that it is difficult to have both.......unless you are underwater.

The addition of Aluminum Powder to an explosive is an effective way to add the effect of a lower Brisance explosive to the existing higher Brisance.

As we learned in EOD school, a little pinch of powdered Aluminum is always a good thing.

Ok "professor" Platapus, you have used all the big impressive words, what the hell does all this mean?

Simply put, the ability to penetrate the hull of a ship is more affected by the higher Brisance of an explosive. But we don't need to penetrate the hull of a ship to sink it, all we need to do is separate the hull plates (think Titanic). This is more easily accomplished by using an explosive with a longer explosive pulse.

The Germans, in an attempt to economize, developed a combination explosive (Hexanite or SW39a) that while it had a lower total explosive power than Torpex (lower Brisance), the higher proportion of Aluminum powder turned that lower power explosive compound into a more effective explosive compound. Effective for this one purpose, that is.

This is why it is difficult to compare explosives. It depends on the compound and its intended use. This is why we don't just put C-4 in to every piece of ordnance. C-4 is good at what it does, but other explosive compounds are good at what they do. There is no universal "best" explosive.

So to reference back to the original question, yes the German torpedoes using SW39a were more effective at comprimising the integrity of the hull plates of merchant ships, despite being "less powerful" than US torpedoes using Torpex.

If your intended target is an armoured hull of a military ship, the story changes. To penetrate armour (as opposed to spalding the armour) you will need a higher Brisance explosive.

In this case, the US torpedoes with Torpex woudl be more effective at compromising the integrity of the armoured hull of a military ship..... assuming the damned Mark 14/Mark 6 even functioned.. but that is another story.

Probably more than you wanted to know. But when discussing the effectiveness of explosives, some background needs to be understood.

And we did not even touch on the secondary explosive effects or the depth of the explosive pulse.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Platapus

If your intended target is an armoured hull of a military ship, the story changes. To penetrate armour (as opposed to spalding the armour) you will need a higher Brisance explosive.

In this case, the US torpedoes with Torpex woudl be more effective at compromising the integrity of the armoured hull of a military ship..... assuming the damned Mark 14/Mark 6 even functioned.. but that is another story.

This is where I disagree. It's my understanding (I've read some actual sources but don't have them handy right now, so "it's my understanding" is as far as I will commit right now) that tests were done during the First World War that concluded that hardened armor isn't really more resistant to a torpedo hit than mild steel. The armor was designed to resist 'point hit's from a shell coming in at supersonic speeds. What did help a little was the fact that the armor was much thicker than the usual 1/4-to-1/2 inch steel plates found on destroyers up through merchants, but the very weight of the armor meant that it couldn't be very wide, usually ending just a few feet below the waterline. This left the lower hull exposed, and toward the end of World War 1 the British started experimenting with TDS (Torpedo Defense Systems). These usually consisted of a 'bulge' of mild steel which was filled with some liquid, allowing the torpedo to rupture the bulge and not reach the hull. The magnetic detonator was originally created to counter that, since the bulge itself couldn't be made to wrap around the bottom of the ship.
http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-047.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-torpedo_bulge

[Hartmann]

In shV it´s not a problem, you can always use the increase explossive power hability of the weapons officer.

perhaps firing a modified torpedo with doble amount of explossive or two tied with duct tape...

[longam]

As long as their shields are down, one torpedo should do it...oops wait I just watched star trek new movie.