Any information about physics (ship dynamics, depthcharging,...) available?

V.C. Sniper · 02-13-10, 04:11 PM

i would FFFFFUUUUUUUUU if i see subs on rail

TarJak · 02-13-10, 05:33 PM

One other question, do you have to get you crew to flood tanks and handle trim at all?

This is crucial to the correct operation of a submersible craft and has ALWAYS been left out. Miscalculations in this aspect caused many accidents in training and action which is why it was drilled so often.

When will we get a subsim that acutally simulates one of the most important parts of being a submariner?

Turbografx · 02-13-10, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

One other question, do you have to get you crew to flood tanks and handle trim at all?

This is crucial to the correct operation of a submersible craft and has ALWAYS been left out. Miscalculations in this aspect caused many accidents in training and action which is why it was drilled so often.

When will we get a subsim that acutally simulates one of the most important parts of being a submariner?

Would not hold my breath if I were you. Hopefully one day someone on these boards will win the lotto and commission his own real sub SIM (which he would share with us naturally).

tater · 02-13-10, 07:06 PM

Yeah, my take on interiors, chatty crew, etc, ad nauseum compared to REAL improvements like:

AI (including historical zig-zag patterns)

depth keeping

proper screw and engine/motor control (left and right independent, electric on surface, running specific diesels, etc)

A realistic plotting paradigm (skipper observes, crew plots target on map as per captains observations, and can draw ahead with the scale, none of this real-time GPS fantasy nonsense).

You paid for all that stuff by being able to watch torpedoes load (which you'll watch exactly once).

02-13-10, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tater

You paid for all that stuff by being able to watch torpedoes load (which you'll watch exactly once).

remember when some of you were saying we should stop asking about core game to be bug free and boring things like having correct motion dynamics because it was more important to the popular opinions to be able to walk around the boat and see torpedos loaded and guys with wrenchs fixing things?

like tater said, this is the price of that because to get something you often must also give up something

tater · 02-13-10, 07:42 PM

BTW, it should be noted that the devs are specialists, so the guys doing the 3d work are NOT the guys who program the physics, and other meaningful stuff. Directly, we only pay for the 3d work with fewer 3d models (fewer ships, fewer sub externals).

But there IS cross over with programming. The code that has the animation connected to the reloading, or that has the guys interact/talk to you. That stuff is done by programmers who might otherwise have added zig-zags (I'm saying this under the assumption this is unchanged from SH4, which is bizarre since almost all ships zig-zagged in war zones all the time (not the SH4 constant helming they do when warned, proper ZZ behavior)).

mookiemookie · 02-14-10, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webster

remember when some of you were saying we should stop asking about core game to be bug free and boring things like having correct motion dynamics because it was more important to the popular opinions to be able to walk around the boat and see torpedos loaded and guys with wrenchs fixing things?

like tater said, this is the price of that because to get something you often must also give up something

Been sayin that for years, but i keep getting shouted down by the "HURR HURR IMMERSION!" crowd.

Sailor Steve · 02-14-10, 06:06 PM

That's the problem I have. I'm not and never have been a gamer. I play a lot of so-called 'games', but every one of them is genre-related. I play tabletop wargames with friends because we're interested in the same subjects and we talk about the reality while we're playing and afterwards at dinner.

I never got into the 'U-boats vs Fleet boats' arguments except to comment that I like submarines and they all fascinate me. That said, while I didn't ask to have crew standing around in SH3 I have grown to like them, and I've grown to like the additional crew at battle stations in SH4, and I kind of like the way things are looking in SH5. But I would gladly go back to having none of that if someone would just make everything work the way it's supposed to.

That hasn't happened yet, and it's looking like it may not be happening here either. I like what I consider to be immersion, but that comes mostly with sound rather than sight. I love the graphics, but they aren't the core of the sim.

Weather-guesser · 02-13-10, 07:37 PM

Quote:

i would FFFFFUUUUUUUUU if i see subs on rail

I wouldn't get my hopes up since that issue has been around since SH3. Of course it seemed to have gotten worse in SH4. Either way, it will take a lot more than that to say the same thing to SH5. I cant wait.

Nisgeis · 02-14-10, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

One other question, do you have to get you crew to flood tanks and handle trim at all?

Hmm, interesting. Would the Captain tell the crew how to trim the boat, or would he just say what depth he wanted? I agree with Turbografx, I wouldn't expect trimming to be in the game, unless it was the Captain's job. We'll probably get emergency surface and crash dive, but that's probably all you'll get.

TarJak · 02-14-10, 05:19 PM

Would the Capt. stand in the torpedo room watching his men work whilst there was an attack on? Would the captain sit and listen to the hydrophone? Would he plot the course or just ask for it to be done?

Why are these in the game if they are not the skippers job?

From what I've seen and read the skipper needed to know and understand all of the systems that came together to operate the boat and the main one he needed to understand was the diving controls.

What has bugged me from SH1 is the complete lack of ANY simulation of the action required to get a boat under trim. It had a bearing on the ability to run silent for long periods, it had a bearing on the speed at which the boat could dive it had a bearing on the way the boat handled rough weather on or near the surface and yet it is completely absent from any subsim currently on or near the market.

02-13-10, 04:11 PM	#1
V.C. Sniper Watch Officer Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 339 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	i would FFFFFUUUUUUUUU if i see subs on rail __________________ I only need one torpedo.

02-14-10, 06:06 PM	#8
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	That's the problem I have. I'm not and never have been a gamer. I play a lot of so-called 'games', but every one of them is genre-related. I play tabletop wargames with friends because we're interested in the same subjects and we talk about the reality while we're playing and afterwards at dinner. I never got into the 'U-boats vs Fleet boats' arguments except to comment that I like submarines and they all fascinate me. That said, while I didn't ask to have crew standing around in SH3 I have grown to like them, and I've grown to like the additional crew at battle stations in SH4, and I kind of like the way things are looking in SH5. But I would gladly go back to having none of that if someone would just make everything work the way it's supposed to. That hasn't happened yet, and it's looking like it may not be happening here either. I like what I consider to be immersion, but that comes mostly with sound rather than sight. I love the graphics, but they aren't the core of the sim. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

02-13-10, 05:33 PM	#2
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	One other question, do you have to get you crew to flood tanks and handle trim at all? This is crucial to the correct operation of a submersible craft and has ALWAYS been left out. Miscalculations in this aspect caused many accidents in training and action which is why it was drilled so often. When will we get a subsim that acutally simulates one of the most important parts of being a submariner?

02-13-10, 07:06 PM	#4
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Yeah, my take on interiors, chatty crew, etc, ad nauseum compared to REAL improvements like: AI (including historical zig-zag patterns) depth keeping proper screw and engine/motor control (left and right independent, electric on surface, running specific diesels, etc) A realistic plotting paradigm (skipper observes, crew plots target on map as per captains observations, and can draw ahead with the scale, none of this real-time GPS fantasy nonsense). You paid for all that stuff by being able to watch torpedoes load (which you'll watch exactly once).

02-13-10, 07:42 PM	#6
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	BTW, it should be noted that the devs are specialists, so the guys doing the 3d work are NOT the guys who program the physics, and other meaningful stuff. Directly, we only pay for the 3d work with fewer 3d models (fewer ships, fewer sub externals). But there IS cross over with programming. The code that has the animation connected to the reloading, or that has the guys interact/talk to you. That stuff is done by programmers who might otherwise have added zig-zags (I'm saying this under the assumption this is unchanged from SH4, which is bizarre since almost all ships zig-zagged in war zones all the time (not the SH4 constant helming they do when warned, proper ZZ behavior)).

02-14-10, 05:19 PM	#11
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Would the Capt. stand in the torpedo room watching his men work whilst there was an attack on? Would the captain sit and listen to the hydrophone? Would he plot the course or just ask for it to be done? Why are these in the game if they are not the skippers job? From what I've seen and read the skipper needed to know and understand all of the systems that came together to operate the boat and the main one he needed to understand was the diving controls. What has bugged me from SH1 is the complete lack of ANY simulation of the action required to get a boat under trim. It had a bearing on the ability to run silent for long periods, it had a bearing on the speed at which the boat could dive it had a bearing on the way the boat handled rough weather on or near the surface and yet it is completely absent from any subsim currently on or near the market.