The gawd-almighty merged DRM in Silent Hunter V thread

[tater]

They needn't do anything illegal, they won't have to to learn your gaming habits. That's valuable marketing data.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I cannot imagine they would do anything illegal. Not because Ubi is holy, but man, imagine the consequences when they were caught.

I'm not suggesting they would do anything illegal, although working out what is illegal in which jurisdiction may be an interesting legal conundrum in this instance, but I'd still be interested to see exactly what data is sent.

Mind you the network snoop would probably not show you unencrypted data anyway. You'd need to see the packets before they were encrypted to know what they were sending anyhow.

In many ways this is one of the things that wrankles most with me. A company that I paid, (via royalties or whatever), then says they are going to send some data from my PC to their servers everytime I play the game, but they won't tell me what that data is because I might be a pirate.

How exactly does this make sense to anyone?

IF it actually stopped software piracy, I'd agree that it would be a reasonable proposition, but at best, like all the other DRM's that are out there OSP will be a mere speed hump rather than a brick wall.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I cannot imagine they would do anything illegal. Not because Ubi is holy, but man, imagine the consequences when they were caught.

They have in the past.
Ubisoft have a number of class actions filed against several of their previous DRM systems, including starforce.
Without exception they where settled out of court, no doubt ofr a considerable amount of cash.

[Greenhornet]

I haven't been to the subsim forums for a while and have just read that SHV will have DRM. I have been playing Silent Hunter since SHII and have really enjoyed the game. I have purchased every copy as soon as it was released, but I won't be buying SHV.

I've experienced DRM with Rise of Flight that I bought without knowing what DRM was. Believe me it sucks. With Rise of Flight you get constant "cannot connect to master server" errors and I feel ripped off because I feel I only have half a game. If I wanted to play online games I would have bought World of Warcraft. Rise of flight developers have seen how much business they've lost and have decided to patch the game so you can play single player offline.... To little to late my friends... the damage is done.

I don't have an XBox or other console, but I'm sure we're going to see Game developers go in that direction, just look at your local EB Games outlet, the computer games section is a sliver of the store.

One thing I'm sure about though, as long as the game developers decide to go with DRM or other such protections, I'll be holding on to my cash for other hobbies!

[Rip]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

All I'm saying is, if SH5 is a decent game and fun, will some nice stuff to play captain, and the realism is solid...

...I'm gonna be playing that sucker, don't care at all about the DRM Cannot wait to try it out.

I'm with you there. I really am in the mood for all night wide eyed fun. I am keeping an optimistically hopeful outlook on every single issue. The only one that worries me because I know how much it will set me off is the drm stuff. The weather has been known to knock out my internet for long stretches.

The good news is that the city I live in (Lafayette, LA) has a Fiber Optic to the home program and I think I should be able to get a fiber connection to my house by summers end. It is provided by the utility and I hope will be less likely to succumb to the crazy gulf coast weather.

Maybe if a storm does come I will just run your way and count on your "reliable internet connection"

[Tarnsman]

I hope its not as bad as you say. im going to give it a go and see.

I dont understand why M$ played the PC game business so poorly and by extension everyone else. Basically IMHO highquality gaming is the only thing that PCs do well that is not done better elsewhere. If it were not for gaming why else buy a super quad core cpu unless you are designing aircraft or running an F1 team. My spreadsheet and word processing programs have been doing the same thing since 1995, just fine thank you.

Heck ATI and nVidia ought to be investing in PC game development since that is about the only reason to buy their mass market products. As for consoles, I've been there done that and I felt like I spent alot of money just to play Madden football with friends (no disrespect to Madden) An afternoon with a Playstation gets boring pretty quick for me. A weekend with my gaming rig is never enough time.

I hope DRM dosnt kill PC gaming, its one of my favorite hobbies. Maybe the industry should take a page from Ray Kroc founder of the McDonnalds franchise system: give away the burgers and fries and sell the soda.

[melendir]

I don't care if they get information from my computer. What I DO CARE is that what if someday I won't have internet connection or even worst the service for SHV ends at ubisoft and I still want to play SHV and can't!
I mean that I might like the game after 15 years and Ubisoft could long since be gone. I know it's far in the future, but someday future is present and I hate the idea of not being able to use something I've paid.

On the other hand, I've already pre-ordered SHV from Play.com, but if that DRM causes me problems or annoys me enough, this could be last Ubisoft game I'm gonna buy!

Why don't they change it to one-time internet activation after installation. That way it could be used offline afterwards.
You would only need internet connection after installation or re-installation.

[TarJak]

THIS is the way to fight piracy: http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/g...0209-np4i.html

Sue the muckers that create the copies and make them available.

Only problem with that is you gotta find 'em first.

[RSColonel_131st]

Damn I'm sure late to the party here.

The people here who also visit simHQ might know me as one of the most vocal Anti-DRM Ranters on that site.

But I can't add much here to what has already been said. Just some facts:

1) Rise of Flight, the first major title to try this "always online" thing, has failed to provide a stable environment for the OSP, leading to repeated evenings without their paid-for game. The system is now changed to allow offline single player.

2) Just as RoF is withdrawing this system since it doesn't work, UBI steps up and announces the same system. Makes a lot of sense, really? Even though UBI certainly has a more stable server farm than NeoQB, connection issues can happen anywhere between them and you.

3) Almost a year ago, I predicted that Big Publishers want to sell you "Games as a Service" with a monthly or yearly prediction. Office 2010 from Microsoft is also now requiring an online connection for certain features. All these big Software companies are looking at Cloud Computing and their Vision is that your PC will simple be a "terminal", everything from the Operating System to Applications to Games is rented, not bought.

4) These online DRM systems destroy the second hand game market, meaning companies can sell short games for higher price since you can't simple resell them when you're trough.

5) EA recently shut down the Multiplayer-Matchmaking Servers for some of their 2008 and 2009 sport titles, telling those customers to buy the 2010 editions. So once a part or whole of your software is depended on publisher infrastructure, they can do pretty much anything with you. UBI could shut down the SH5 Servers when they release SH6. Or ask everyone still playing for a yearly subscription to "pay for the upkeep of servers for an old game".

6) As has been said, they will use personal data gathered from you for datamining and marketing. Rise of Flight Developers sent everyone who hadn't played for a few weeks a survey email saying "Why aren't you playing your game?" Who wants that kind of monitoring?

************************
The last years have shown one thing very clearly: Software Companies want to maximize their profit while reducing investment. First they cut away printed manuals and big boxes, then they introduced advertisements in games, and now they are selling "Downloadable Premium Content" or Online Features like "Windows Live Gold". The same things that used to be included with a 50 hour+ gameplay release are now "pay extra" for a 10 hour gameplay title.

That some of this stuff is legally grey (like restricting resale rights) doesn't bother these companies since no average Joe Blow can afford to take them to court.

Everyone who says he's going to buy SH5 regardless is encouraging this behaviour and we are all ultimatly losing our freedom to play our games where we want, when we want and how we want by it.

I haven't bought a single online activated game yet. It's hard with titles like the Black Shark helo sim and such, but I'm not gonna sit there in three years and moan my "removed" game I paid for.

If people want to learn more about implications of online DRM and examples where it has already failed, please refer my simHQ Commentary "My Games need to stay my own".

http://www.simhq.com/_commentary/all_092a.html

[JScones]

Originally Posted by TarJak

THIS is the way to fight piracy: http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/g...0209-np4i.html

Sue the muckers that create the copies and make them available.

Only problem with that is you gotta find 'em first.

Hehe, saw that. Bet he got a surprise when he got a knock at the door!

[TarJak]

Too right and I'll bet he wondering where he's gonna come up with $1.5million plus the $100k Nintendo legal bill. Servers the stoopid mucker right IMHO.

[Jimbuna]

As worrying as it is, DRM looks like the way forward in the software companies plans as a means of combatting piracy.

It is gratifying to see there is a growing resitance to what many see as a draconian measure. This resistance is gathering support and an early sign of success would be the ROF game.

I'd be happy with a 'half way house' outcome.........online registration and the ability for single player mode offline.

Ever the optimist.

[TarJak]

Originally Posted by RSColonel_131st

Damn I'm sure late to the party here.

The people here who also visit simHQ might know me as one of the most vocal Anti-DRM Ranters on that site.

But I can't add much here to what has already been said. Just some facts:

1) Rise of Flight, the first major title to try this "always online" thing, has failed to provide a stable environment for the OSP, leading to repeated evenings without their paid-for game. The system is now changed to allow offline single player.

2) Just as RoF is withdrawing this system since it doesn't work, UBI steps up and announces the same system. Makes a lot of sense, really? Even though UBI certainly has a more stable server farm than NeoQB, connection issues can happen anywhere between them and you.

3) Almost a year ago, I predicted that Big Publishers want to sell you "Games as a Service" with a monthly or yearly prediction. Office 2010 from Microsoft is also now requiring an online connection for certain features. All these big Software companies are looking at Cloud Computing and their Vision is that your PC will simple be a "terminal", everything from the Operating System to Applications to Games is rented, not bought.

4) These online DRM systems destroy the second hand game market, meaning companies can sell short games for higher price since you can't simple resell them when you're trough.

5) EA recently shut down the Multiplayer-Matchmaking Servers for some of their 2008 and 2009 sport titles, telling those customers to buy the 2010 editions. So once a part or whole of your software is depended on publisher infrastructure, they can do pretty much anything with you. UBI could shut down the SH5 Servers when they release SH6. Or ask everyone still playing for a yearly subscription to "pay for the upkeep of servers for an old game".

6) As has been said, they will use personal data gathered from you for datamining and marketing. Rise of Flight Developers sent everyone who hadn't played for a few weeks a survey email saying "Why aren't you playing your game?" Who wants that kind of monitoring?

************************
The last years have shown one thing very clearly: Software Companies want to maximize their profit while reducing investment. First they cut away printed manuals and big boxes, then they introduced advertisements in games, and now they are selling "Downloadable Premium Content" or Online Features like "Windows Live Gold". The same things that used to be included with a 50 hour+ gameplay release are now "pay extra" for a 10 hour gameplay title.

That some of this stuff is legally grey (like restricting resale rights) doesn't bother these companies since no average Joe Blow can afford to take them to court.

Everyone who says he's going to buy SH5 regardless is encouraging this behaviour and we are all ultimatly losing our freedom to play our games where we want, when we want and how we want by it.

I haven't bought a single online activated game yet. It's hard with titles like the Black Shark helo sim and such, but I'm not gonna sit there in three years and moan my "removed" game I paid for.

If people want to learn more about implications of online DRM and examples where it has already failed, please refer my simHQ Commentary "My Games need to stay my own".

http://www.simhq.com/_commentary/all_092a.html

Great post! Says it all really and outlines what the OSP is really for. Increasing sales for Ubisoft. NOT fighting piracy or improving services to customers.

[Sgtmonkeynads]

If we all went out today and bought ROF, since our hated D-word is gone, would that, could that have an impact on how other developers see DRM. If ROF ditched something nobody liked, and then sales sky-rocket, would other compainis ditch it too? What would it actually take to make companies see our point of view? Money!

[Iron Budokan]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

I'd be happy with a 'half way house' outcome.........online registration and the ability for single player mode offline.

Ever the optimist.

I could also live with online registration.