a story of patriotism...

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

...or rather quite the opposite

yesterday my dad, 64 and heart patient, was brutally arrested and, with only few clothes on him, literally thrown into an ice-cold cell. This all because of one terrible crime...
...he raised the Dutch flag while on the visitors bench in a city council's meeting.

The city counsil was discussing a plan for placing a giant mosque in our neighbourhood. To be the biggest mosque in all the province. Room for 500 mosque-goers, from all over the country, and that while there's already much too less room to park all residents cars, let alone a few hundred more. Not to mention the minarettes and the loud calling for prayers.
Needless to say pretty much all the neighbourhood was against those plans, and a large number of us went to the city council's meeting to protest, and at least see what the outcome would be.
There, my dad put the Dutch flag on his walking stick, and raised it. He was immediately summoned to lower our national flag, which he refused. Within a matter of minutes EIGHT police officers (bit overdone, 8 VS one 64 year old man with bad health) stormed the buiding and dragged my dad straight out, under loud protest of all present.
Luckily eventually the counsil decided against the mosque after all.

Now compare this with the US, rarely do I see any pic without the US flag showing up someplace.

What in the devils name will become of this country if we can't even raise our national flag anymore?!

(PS sorry for this rant but I just want to remind you that how overexaggerated it might look at times, you US citizens should be lucky to still be allowed a little patriotism)

Your father simply raised the flag and was not being disruptive? (No threats, shouting, etc?)

Was he asked to leave and refused?

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Your father simply raised the flag and was not being disruptive? (No threats, shouting, etc?)

Was he asked to leave and refused?

that pretty much sums it up yeah.
He raised the flag and did not shout, threaten or did anything else disruptive.

He was asked to leave and refused.

My point is not that he was arrested because he refused to leave. My point is WHY he was asked to leave. He was asked to leave while he didn't do anything disruptive.

I've been telling that the whole time, but someone here has not been able to grasp that yet

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by DarkFish

I've been telling that the whole time, but someone here has not been able to grasp that yet

Oh I assume he is perfectly able to grasp that. It's just that he is not willing. Telling by repeated bad experience, I recommend you stop wasting your breath. It's not for no reason that many people have switched him to "ignore". You can tell him whatever you want, and repeat it as often as you want, it will never matter.

Nothing better to do with your time?

He raised the flag and did not shout, threaten or did anything else disruptive.

Irrelevant, your opinion om what counts as disruptive or threatening behavior anythinbgn cv ounts for nothing......that is the law in your country
One persons opinion counts and that person is named on your fathers writ.
that simple fact demonstrates thyt you don't understand Dutch law.

Oh I assume he is perfectly able to grasp that.

Skybird should be able to grasp that .
After all how often has he complained that his legitimate complaints under German law have been screwed over by the actions of idiots(can I say that Sky has had problems with neo nazis sharing his platform?) in council meetings who don't understand laws.

Nothing better to do with your time?

Exactly, I got outbid last week. That was in Jims land.It don't affect my finances though
Down your way there ain't no market so why would bother unless it was the selling to myuself of something I already had????
Someone relate to Skybird what the hell us dumb Micks have been doingfor the past years while our domnestic crooks have been trying to line thier pockets...as of courser mhe can't read it himself as his arrogance on the global conspiracy and his supreme wisdom has left him blind.

Its the Muslims Skybird , no matter what the subject is , they are all out to get you...its ISLAMthey breed like rabbits we need a wonder wea[pon to stop the demographic myth before Jedis rule the world.

Or back to topic , does anyone want to explain to Darkfish how his fathers rights become resricted the moment he enters the council building?

Its set out in dutch law if you didn't realise....the same law that got him arrested.

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Irrelevant, your opinion om what counts as disruptive or threatening behavior anythinbgn cv ounts for nothing......that is the law in your country
One persons opinion counts and that person is named on your fathers writ.
that simple fact demonstrates thyt you don't understand Dutch law.

There you go again. Everything you don't like is labeled "Irrelevant".
Very easy way to 'prove' your right: "I have got no evidence for my case whatsoever, but if I label all your evidence as 'irrelevant' you haven't got any either"

Originally Posted by Skybird

Oh I assume he is perfectly able to grasp that. It's just that he is not willing. Telling by repeated bad experience, I recommend you stop wasting your breath. It's not for no reason that many people have switched him to "ignore". You can tell him whatever you want, and repeat it as often as you want, it will never matter.

yeah it seems so. He refuses to read my posts, forcing me to repeat everything a thousand times. Meanwhile he's drifting away from my point, ignoring everything I say and attacking me on newly made up topics I never talked about. He's both accusing me of having said things I've never said, and purposely ignoring relevant things I *have* said.

Originally Posted by Skybird

Nothing better to do with your time?

yes actually I have. As his repeatedly asking already answered questions shows, Tribesman proves unable to read my posts. So what's the point in answering more of his questions if he doesn't read them anyway?

There you go again. Everything you don't like is labeled "Irrelevant"

For gods sake Darkfish why can't you understand?
There is only one thing that is relevant.
You must know what it is
Its on your fathers charge sheet.

One thing matters , that is the law.
The only thing that matters is the opinion of the person who decides what is acceptable.
Its in national law , its in municiple law , he is apponted by the municipality under their laws reinforced with national laws.
On a cartoon scale that peskiy clerk is Judge Dread...as far as meeting go that ar e under his remit "his word is law"

As said before , if you doubt me on some basis of Dutch law then tell your father to not pay the fine.

The ball is in your court.
Similar to what your father was told .
put up or shut up

But hey you had enough opertunities for that and chose to do neither, since every question I ask you about Dutch law you fail, to answer or give an answer that is irrelevant under Dutch law.
(for those in doubt can you compare civil law with criminal law) (in the netherlands of course as some of you may never have lived there)

As his repeatedly asking already answered questions shows

if your answer does not answer the question it is irrelevant.
If I ask you under which law you have the right to wave a flag in a meetinfg about planning permission and your answer is ...the law is "child protection" it "clearly " demonstrates you don't know what you are talking about.
When you insist that your selection of laws that are not applicable in the situation(in the main, not by even a huge stretch of the imagination) are the laws you knowe and the lkaws that are applicable then you demonstrate that you don't know the law.

I could have said "clearly" without any further comment.
Butr every time you hasve chosen to make "clearly" that much clearer for anyone whom is willing to look.

Can I ask again....... as it is a long time since you and your father specificly talked about the prospect......Have you talke to a lawyer ye as us damn foriegn micks(of my generation) being a nation of people who go outr foriegn don't understand foriegn laws.

But come on Darkfish , you want probabilities and Maths , on specifics how many council meetings in how many countries all with their own process have I had to go through?

Yeah you have lived where you live all your life and appear to have done very little.
Can I make a guess (just for the purpoose of demonstration)on how many meetings of you local council you have attended?
Can I make a guess on how many planning meetings you have attended?
Is it none?
None before your dad got into trouble?
None whatsoever?
None in the slightest?
OK I went to one but knew that what the nasty little "official" said was law?

Interesting questions ain't they.
But its Ok I expect your normal answer.
I don't know your laws because "currently" I live in Ireland
(notice a word there Hunter)
I don't know your laws because I ain't been applying for and objecting to developments across the continent and into other continents in the slightest for many many years.
I just bin sitting here in backwards Ireland working for nothing but taxing and waiting to die
But on a european range avoid Spain both parts of former Czechlands, don't go any where near N. Cyprus even as a tax scheme and be very very careful where there is the possibility of Russian involvement(as in the latter the law don't count for bugger all)(which is a warning for any of you Brits who think you may make a penny on the olympics)(or Poles with the Soccer...but I think most of them Poles with a chance of competing got suckered out to Europes second miracle...iceland.

Still , one last chance.
Ain't I a gem. Generous to a fault

There you go again. Everything you don't like is labeled "Irrelevant".

Darkfish, my likes and dislikes of Dutch law concerning municipal meetings on the subject of planning permission are not even mentioned, they have not come into play once in the slightest.
You are the one that is letting personal emotion cloud the issue
I do not give a flying Dutchman about your fathers views on planning.
I do not give a fig about the crazy turk nationalists who want the project(don't tell skybird though as you know what his fetish is like).
The only issue here is Dutch law , dutch law concerning conduct in municpal buildings.


The only opinion that matters in this respect is the opinion of the official that told your father to shut up or leave.
He is the law period, at that instant he is the be all and end all as far as legal beghavior is concerned.
Ignore the law at your peril as ignorance of the law is no defence.
So either your father knew the law and ignored it.....which means he is guilty
Or he didn't know the law but wrongly thought he knew the law better tnan the legal fella whose job is the law...which means he is guilty.

Now you may maintain that the law is wrong(which you havn't as you maintain that the law isn't the law)
You could take it toi parliament, you could take it to your queen.....but if you go in their buildings and to do anything after the offiacial tells you not to do it then you id buggered(ubntil you change the law...dutch law that is ...the law of the Netherlands...where I don't live anymore as I is errrrrrr....Irish who don't be knowing nothing so we don't because we currently reside in errrrrr...Ireland....)

He refuses to read my posts, forcing me to repeat everything a thousand times

BTW Darkfish if what you write has already been addressed then you don't have to repeat it , repeatingf it just shows that you don't understand why what you wrote is wrong.
If you repeat it 5 times it shows that you really don't understand.
When you repeat it even after it is simply explained you are showing a real problem .
As a sample look at breach of the peace.
Such a catch all wide ranging charge that covers both the civil code and criminal code in about 4 dozen instances.

What did you say about that single piece of legislation again and again?

[Onkel Neal]

It's awesome how much time people have to discuss the important topics of the day.

[DarkFish]

Listen, I ain't stupid enough to keep answering people that refuse to even look at my answers so the next two are the last ones that you'll get from me.
You can keep on trolling this thread to oblivion but I don't see any point in continuing answering your posts if you keep on trying to derail this thread.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

BTW Darkfish if what you write has already been addressed then you don't have to repeat it , repeatingf it just shows that you don't understand why what you wrote is wrong.
If you repeat it 5 times it shows that you really don't understand.

and this answer shows you haven't read any of my posts, as what I've been repeating all the time is NOT ABOUT LAWS but about WHAT MY MAIN POINT IS, so it's something I CANNOT be wrong about.

You keep on addressing the issue of "What's on your fathers charge sheet", while that's NOTHING I have EVER denied, or EVER claimed the police to be wrong about.

To quote myself here for a minute: "Meanwhile he's drifting away from my point, ignoring everything I say and attacking me on newly made up topics I never talked about. He's both accusing me of having said things I've never said, and purposely ignoring relevant things I *have* said."

Yeah you have lived where you live all your life and appear to have done very little.
Can I make a guess (just for the purpoose of demonstration)on how many meetings of you local council you have attended?
Can I make a guess on how many planning meetings you have attended?
Is it none?
None before your dad got into trouble?
None whatsoever?
None in the slightest?

wrong on all your assumptions.

Now.. see ya!

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Irrelevant, your opinion om what counts as disruptive or threatening behavior anythinbgn cv ounts for nothing......that is the law in your country
One persons opinion counts and that person is named on your fathers writ.
that simple fact demonstrates thyt you don't understand Dutch law.



Skybird should be able to grasp that .
After all how often has he complained that his legitimate complaints under German law have been screwed over by the actions of idiots(can I say that Sky has had problems with neo nazis sharing his platform?) in council meetings who don't understand laws.


Exactly, I got outbid last week. That was in Jims land.It don't affect my finances though
Down your way there ain't no market so why would bother unless it was the selling to myuself of something I already had????
Someone relate to Skybird what the hell us dumb Micks have been doingfor the past years while our domnestic crooks have been trying to line thier pockets...as of courser mhe can't read it himself as his arrogance on the global conspiracy and his supreme wisdom has left him blind.

Its the Muslims Skybird , no matter what the subject is , they are all out to get you...its ISLAMthey breed like rabbits we need a wonder wea[pon to stop the demographic myth before Jedis rule the world.

Or back to topic , does anyone want to explain to Darkfish how his fathers rights become resricted the moment he enters the council building?

Its set out in dutch law if you didn't realise....the same law that got him arrested.

Are you related to OTH?

[DarkFish]

Originally Posted by Snestorm

Are you related to OTH?

probably not but they're certainly good friends

Has he seen a lawyer yet Darkfish

Snestorm, hows your long discredited 1930s form of nationalist patriotism going?
Did you get excited when someone mentioned waving flags?