sh5 pdf campaign overview here

[codmander]

ALTER THE WAR.........GAY

[Safe-Keeper]

Remember you can't please everyone. In SHIII, you couldn't change history the least bit, and this left a lot of people frustrated. Now, in SHV, you can change history (at least in minor ways), and naturally this, too, leaves some people unhappy.

While I'm not too impressed with where SH5 is headed, myself, I respect Ubi's right to try out new ways to make sims, and appreciate the fact that us in the sim crowd have the excellent SHIII.

Silent Hunter 6 better be hardcore, though.

I can just picture Bernard effing up history, though. "Herr Kaleun, ich seems to have accidentally fired ein eel schwarm! It's headed straight for ze Bismarck!"

[Nickolas]

Originally Posted by codmander

ALTER THE WAR.........GAY

grow up...

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by JU_88

I was using it as an example, I was mearly trying to remind people that every SH3/4/5 patrol we undertake is pure fantasy anyway.
It never happened. the best the sim can do is convey a sense of what it was like.

Just answering your post as it was posted .

Originally Posted by JU_88

And so what if they do think that? Silent Hunter is a game, not an interactive history lesson for retards.
Anyway you could do the same Turkey shoot in the last two SH games on a low realism.

Hmmm, I think if someone really did wish that they'd been born in the 1910s / 1920s and also wished that they could have won the war for the Nazis, then they'd be a fairly strange fellow. There would be quite a lot wrong with it. (This part should be a nested quote, but that doesn't seem to work since multi-quote went in).

Originally Posted by JU_88

Theoretically it should be harder in SH5 because the game is allegedly able to respond to your actions (e.g by sending a bunch of escorts/planes to punish you for such reckless behavior.)

That would be a great improvement.

Originally Posted by JU_88

Sure I agree, by 1943, no matter what the player has done, the game should be giving off a STRONG Impression that its the begining of the end for the Uboats..
How do we know that this is not the case? I have not seen anything in that PDF that states "the player is able to secure an Axis victory and you vill be king of ze vorld!!'
Rather it says "will dictate the out come of the war on sea and land too" which is exactly what the U-boats did to some degree!
It doesn't say to what degree, its abit vague and open to interpretation

But of course people will jump to the worst possible conclusion... (again)

I was just posting what the two opposing views were. Once again, this is another example of how everyone has gone off down their own personal paths of despair, because Ubisoft has given out incomplete or vague information. People will assume the worst and hope for the best.

[Bubblehead1980]

As usual, Ducimus said basically what I was thinking

[MercurySeven]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Some things are entirely plausible, dynamic, and will not change historical events. A great example is as AVG mentioned, convoys being rerouted if a Uboat was known to be in a certain area. That really happened.

But things like saving the Bismark or altering any major historical outcomes so the Nazi's win should be right out. It's disgraceful and in extremely poor taste. Therego I don't think the campaign should handle those things any differently then it did in SH3 or Sh4.

I just finished a patrol in which I sank the Nelson near Gibraltar. Which was odd, because the patrol before I sank her north of Scotland. And the patrol before that I actually sank her near Norway. Now, I know that I had quite some (bad) luck to run into the Nelson three patrols in a row, but the fact that she did not remain sunk was kind of unnerving to me. Its not just "a Nelson class vessel" but the actual HMS Nelson, so in a simulation I would expect her to obey the laws of time and space and not just reappear no matter what I do.

I see your point, but in order to ignore such things as the sinking of important ships one would have to remove them and replace them with generic vessels of that class (such as in SH4 when I remember right). So either Hood, Nelson and Bismark are in the game and I can actually sink them (for good!) or they should not appear in it at all. And I for one would be kind of sad about that.

But as written here before: Saving the Bismark (however unlikely this actually is when SH5 holds its end of the dynamic campaign and reacting enemy AI as promised) or sinking the Nelson does not mean that the Brits will have to eat Sauerkraut from that day on. I expect that no matter how "dynamic" they make the campaign, a certain flow of gneric ships (merchant and navy) will keep on coming and thereby ensure that Britain holds out just fine.

And regarding the change of certain aspects of the war: I assume UBI chose Malta as a PR stunt for a good reason. It was important for the war in north africa and it heavily relied on convoy support, so cutting this support actually has a huge impact on Malta and explains why in SH5 it can fall to Italy. But what other aspect of the uboot warfare would have similar outcomes? Appart from africa the remaining targets are England, the Soviet Union and the USA and it would take a hell of a lot sunk ships to justify any change of the war that results in a defeat of those nations, so I assume ( / hope) that UBI did not include any win option for the Germans there.

[THE_MASK]

I think they said that the stock game has 250 convoys in it . Just mod 4 times that and the altering the outcome of the war should be fixed .

[elanaiba]

What you will be able to change or not in the game, you will see. What we are trying to do is give the player a believable context to his actions.

I have 2 things to say about dynamic campaigns in the context of games placed in World War 2 - in other words "known history".

The first one is this - consider the aspect of the victorious allies. Would I be playing the good guys (US Submarines in Pacific for example), should they win no matter what?

If I were the Swordfish pilot hitting the Bismarck, should history continue unaltered if I miss my shot? Would that be believable?

Or substitute yourself for this man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_David_Wanklyn. If I don't live up to his actions, should that not matter?

The second aspect is this:

If the consequences of my actions - regardless of the role I play in the game - do not matter, why do I bother playing my part?

We aim to teach players history by showing the REASONS and the possible CONSEQUENCES for engagements.

Take the example of the Bismarck. That ship was not just cruising to serve as target practice for the Royal Navy. They were trying to break out in the Atlantic and wreak havoc on British Trade. Would their success have mattered to any extent?

[bigboywooly]

Originally Posted by elanaiba

What you will be able to change or not in the game, you will see. What we are trying to do is give the player a believable context to his actions.

I have 2 things to say about dynamic campaigns in the context of games placed in World War 2 - in other words "known history".

The first one is this - consider the aspect of the victorious allies. Would I be playing the good guys (US Submarines in Pacific for example), should they win no matter what?

If I were the Swordfish pilot hitting the Bismarck, should history continue unaltered if I miss my shot? Would that be believable?

Or substitute yourself for this man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_David_Wanklyn. If I don't live up to his actions, should that not matter?

The second aspect is this:

If the consequences of my actions - regardless of the role I play in the game - do not matter, why do I bother playing my part?

We aim to teach players history by showing the REASONS and the possible CONSEQUENCES for engagements.

Take the example of the Bismarck. That ship was not just cruising to serve as target practice for the Royal Navy. They were trying to break out in the Atlantic and wreak havoc on British Trade. Would their success have mattered to any extent?

Interesting
A what if

So answer this if you can pls Dan

There has to be some form of scripting for the units to move right ?
Or how does Bismark know she has to be in the Denmark straits in May 41

So if I am sitting in the Denmark Straits and take out HMS Norfolk and HMS Suffolk before they spot Bismark and Eugen do Hood and POW still intercept or do the German ships breakout ?
Do the home fleet remain in port as if the raiders never spotted or will they sail anyway
Is the breakout scripted if the Br heavy units dont make contact in that convoys will continue to use battleships as cover against surface raiders and convoys stop sailing
And Bismark and Eugens careers continue ?
Etc
Or
Will Bismark still disappear from game on the 27th May 41 even if no one spots them during the breakout
Just how dynamic is dynamic ?

[karamazovnew]

All will be revealed in March...

I for one can't wait... I mean that. Dan, any possibility of getting my hands on a box fresh and hot out of the oven? Gameshop.ro doesn't even list the game

[karamazovnew]

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

any possibility of getting my hands on a box fresh and hot out of the oven?

Wind blowing... only a distant crow breaks the silence...

[Nisgeis]

Originally Posted by karamazovnew

Wind blowing... only a distant crow breaks the silence...

Give it more than 16 minutes! When I pre-ordered SH3 from Ubisoft France, it arrived on the day of the release in the UK. Maybe they can do the same for Romania?

[elanaiba]

Oh come on, my primary job is building the game, you know?

Check PM.

[Bubblehead1980]

only 250 convoys?

[MercurySeven]

Originally Posted by Nisgeis

Give it more than 16 minutes! When I pre-ordered SH3 from Ubisoft France, it arrived on the day of the release in the UK. Maybe they can do the same for Romania?

Amazon does send to all european countries for a rather civil bulk price if I remember right. When I was in Sweden I collected a few oders from my friends and we thereby spread those costs. In the end everybody had to pay 2€ or something like that for shipping.

I'm talking about a european Amazon of course, Amazon US might be a bit more time consuming. There are customs and of course shipping over the atlantic is usually a bitch ... with all the uboots and all that.