Haiti, a nation... now without a Government

GoldenRivet · 01-20-10, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

Given the aid response from the US they are getting the US government whether they want it or not.

I'm rather certain that if North Korea showed up with aid they would want it.

sounds like those guys need all the help they can get.

TarJak · 01-20-10, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

I'm rather certain that if North Korea showed up with aid they would want it.

And then they'd have the North Korean government.

They do certainly need help though. the place is a shambles at the moment.

GoldenRivet · 01-20-10, 09:23 PM

i have seen mention that this is being labeled a U.S. occupation.

i could see where some might think that, but isnt that over the top???

its not an invasion for crying out loud

SteamWake · 01-20-10, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

i have seen mention that this is being labeled a U.S. occupation.

i could see where some might think that, but isnt that over the top???

its not an invasion for crying out loud

On more than one occasion.

First Nutjob in Brazil

Then the French echoed him.

No really search it.

GoldenRivet · 01-20-10, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteamWake

On more than one occasion.

First Nutjob in Brazil

Then the French echoed him.

No really search it.

Lord knows we have been there a few times.

but would this not be considered humanitarian?

Buddahaid · 01-20-10, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Lord knows we have been there a few times.

but would this not be considered humanitarian?

Yes it would, and is. But, if it does not fit in your political agenda....

bookworm_020 · 01-21-10, 12:30 AM

No dumping of governments on other coutries. You have to deal with your own toxic waste!

Kazuaki Shimazaki II · 01-21-10, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

Lord knows we have been there a few times.

but would this not be considered humanitarian?

Consider this analogy. I'm your next door neighbor. Peering through the distance, I manage to see that your kid has gotten himself hurt playing in your backyard. I rush over with two others of my family, with bandages and disinfectant in our left hands and with M16s in our right, climb over your fence in your yard. I start bandaging your kid, but my two family members have their M16s in ready stance and seeking potential targets...

How would you interpret all this, regardless of my intentions?

August · 01-21-10, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazuaki Shimazaki II

Consider this analogy. I'm your next door neighbor. Peering through the distance, I manage to see that your kid has gotten himself hurt playing in your backyard. I rush over with two others of my family, with bandages and disinfectant in our left hands and with M16s in our right, climb over your fence in your yard. I start bandaging your kid, but my two family members have their M16s in ready stance and seeking potential targets...

How would you interpret all this, regardless of my intentions?

Are there also gangs of bullies hovering around the injured kid trying to steal the bandages and disinfectant right out of your hands?

Dowly · 01-21-10, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

i have seen mention that this is being labeled a U.S. occupation.

i could see where some might think that, but isnt that over the top???

its not an invasion for crying out loud

I can see why someone would see it as an occupation. I mean, you got what, 16 000 troops in Haiti atm, for an operation to help people recovering from an earthquake.

GoldenRivet · 01-21-10, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

I can see why someone would see it as an occupation. I mean, you got what, 16 000 troops in Haiti atm, for an operation to help people recovering from an earthquake.

Fair enough, but so far Obama hasn't made a public address to Haiti saying

"All of your base are belong to us" yet so... not what i would label an aggressive occupation of Haiti.

Oberon · 01-21-10, 12:37 PM

It's all about visible deterrence. You see a soldier with a rifle on patrol and you're a bit less likely to rob someone of their packet of rice. You wait until he goes around the corner and then smack them over the head...
Also, I should imagine a fair few of those soldiers are actually more involved in distribution rather than just standing around pointing their guns at people.

UnderseaLcpl · 01-21-10, 12:42 PM

Occupation? Really?

I've never credited any government with an overabundance of brains, but even the most sinister politicians in the western world aren't that freaking retarded. On the other hand, there are politicians stupid enough to insinuate that this effort is a covert occupation, apparently.

The US military is regularly deployed to disaster relief areas for a lot of reasons. For one thing, most field units are mechanized to a significant extent, so they have generators, water purification systems, engineering equipment, and all that other crap. Even better, they come with built-in security. They're also already being payed. Other than the transportation costs and any seperation pay incurred for a humanitarian deployment the military costs about what it does to just have it sit around and fill sandbags in the US rather than in a disaster-stricken nation.

Does anyone remember the military occupation of New Orleans after hurricane Katrina? They sent like, 60,000 troops there but nobody was bitching about occupation. How about that Indonesian tsunami? I don't know how many troops were deployed there but I know for a fact it had to be in the tens of thousands. How about Somalia? I thought not.

The military is an efficient mechanism for disaster relief because all the assets are already in place and ready to go, that's why they use it. Well, its as efficient as a military can ever really be, anyway.

I think private contractors would probably be more efficient if the government could manage to contract a private entity at a reasonable rate, but since they overpay for everything I don't think that's likely.

01-21-10, 12:57 PM

Quote:

I've never credited any government with an overabundance of brains, but even the most sinister politicians in the western world aren't that freaking retarded. On the other hand, there are politicians stupid enough to insinuate that this effort is a covert occupation, apparently.

I agree, politicians are stupid and often read too much into things. However the US does have quite a history of military intervention in the region and in the country. And while USAID (and its agencies)does great relief work it also has a history of being used as a cover for some very nasty stuff.
So while it can be said that the politicians are dumb for jumping to those conclusions, it cannot be said that those conclusions are baseless.

Quote:

Does anyone remember the military occupation of New Orleans after hurricane Katrina? They sent like, 60,000 troops there but nobody was bitching about occupation.

How does one make an occupation of their own territory?
But wasn't the NRA bitching about the evil national guard entering peoples homes and taking away their guns

SteamWake · 01-21-10, 01:09 PM

One question...

Why in the hell would we want to 'occupy' a poverty stricken third world country with little to no assets.

01-20-10, 09:23 PM	#3
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,729 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	i have seen mention that this is being labeled a U.S. occupation. i could see where some might think that, but isnt that over the top??? its not an invasion for crying out loud __________________

01-21-10, 12:30 AM	#7
bookworm_020 Navy Seal Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sinking ships off the Australian coast Posts: 5,966 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	No dumping of governments on other coutries. You have to deal with your own toxic waste! __________________ "There is always one person in any organization who knows whats going on, That person must be fired"

01-21-10, 12:42 PM	#13
UnderseaLcpl Silent Hunter Join Date: May 2008 Location: Storming the beaches! Posts: 4,254 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Occupation? Really? I've never credited any government with an overabundance of brains, but even the most sinister politicians in the western world aren't that freaking retarded. On the other hand, there are politicians stupid enough to insinuate that this effort is a covert occupation, apparently. The US military is regularly deployed to disaster relief areas for a lot of reasons. For one thing, most field units are mechanized to a significant extent, so they have generators, water purification systems, engineering equipment, and all that other crap. Even better, they come with built-in security. They're also already being payed. Other than the transportation costs and any seperation pay incurred for a humanitarian deployment the military costs about what it does to just have it sit around and fill sandbags in the US rather than in a disaster-stricken nation. Does anyone remember the military occupation of New Orleans after hurricane Katrina? They sent like, 60,000 troops there but nobody was bitching about occupation. How about that Indonesian tsunami? I don't know how many troops were deployed there but I know for a fact it had to be in the tens of thousands. How about Somalia? I thought not. The military is an efficient mechanism for disaster relief because all the assets are already in place and ready to go, that's why they use it. Well, its as efficient as a military can ever really be, anyway. I think private contractors would probably be more efficient if the government could manage to contract a private entity at a reasonable rate, but since they overpay for everything I don't think that's likely. __________________ I stole this sig from Task Force

01-21-10, 01:09 PM	#15
SteamWake Rear Admiral Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 13,224 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	One question... Why in the hell would we want to 'occupy' a poverty stricken third world country with little to no assets. __________________ Follow the progress of Mr. Mulligan : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147648

01-21-10, 12:37 PM	#12
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	It's all about visible deterrence. You see a soldier with a rifle on patrol and you're a bit less likely to rob someone of their packet of rice. You wait until he goes around the corner and then smack them over the head... Also, I should imagine a fair few of those soldiers are actually more involved in distribution rather than just standing around pointing their guns at people.